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 Author Thread: What is the reason Canda elected Trudeau Can Canada be more liberal?
 427cammer
Joined: 3/1/2008
Msg: 149 (view)
 
What is the reason Canda elected Trudeau Can Canada be more liberal?
Posted: 3/3/2019 9:23:12 PM
^^^^ nope, nuh uh.

Us Canadians don't care that he's arrogant and we don't care that he's not very bright. And apparently we don't care that he is crooked as hell...

...but we won't stand for someone casting doubt on how incredibly good-looking he is. Take it back.
 427cammer
Joined: 3/1/2008
Msg: 146 (view)
 
What is the reason Canda elected Trudeau Can Canada be more liberal?
Posted: 3/2/2019 10:12:32 PM
LeFouGamboj:

Would you pose the same question to Trump lovers given what he has been mired in for the past 2 years?

No need, there's already several Canadians who are constantly pestering the Trump supporters. I wanted to see if these Canadians were sensible enough to be embarrassed about their own leader.


SomewhereInTheStratosfere:

As for Trudeau, what do you want him to do? pee 9000 jobs up a tree. If Lavelin was a company in English speaking Canada, people would be all over him to give it a pass and save those jobs.

I'm shocked and appalled that I have to share a country with people who think like you. The hate and abuse Trudeau and his supporters have dealt out to an indigenous female makes me not want to admit to being Canadian.
 427cammer
Joined: 3/1/2008
Msg: 142 (view)
 
What is the reason Canda elected Trudeau Can Canada be more liberal?
Posted: 3/1/2019 12:12:57 AM

Justin Trudeau is often viewed in both Canada and The United States as a kind of anti-Trump. Young, nice looking, liberal, the son of a former prime minister, and sufficiently woke in all the right ways, he has a hero status for some. It is remarkable that all of a sudden it is Trudeau, not Trump, who may be taken down by corruption.

It’s a good reminder that Donald Trump didn’t invent corruption or the breaking of political norms––such things predate him by a few centuries. That a “nice guy,” like Trudeau engaged in corruption will surprise many, but perhaps it shouldn’t. Abuse of government power has never been limited to the crude.

It will be an astounding irony if just as the Mueller probe returns a report with no smoking gun, Trump’s adversary in Canada is engulfed in a damaging scandal. It will be another example of something that “wasn’t supposed to go that way.” But here we are. Over two years after investigations into Trump began there has still been no finding of wrongdoing by him. Just three weeks into the Lavalin scandal, Trudeau has been badly damaged.

Whether Trudeau’s leadership survives this scandal or not, it is yet another reminder that things are not always what they seem.

http://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/politics/unlike-trump-trudeau-is-in-real-trouble/ar-BBUcBch?ocid=ientp

Is there anyone here left who will admit to being happy when Trudeau was elected?.... are you finally ready to admit the error of your ways?
 427cammer
Joined: 3/1/2008
Msg: 8376 (view)
 
Will President Elect Donald Trump Last The Full 4 Years?
Posted: 2/2/2019 12:41:32 PM
HawkingJr:

As many have said before, the issue isn’t Trump having sex with a porn star AND carrying on a year-long affair with a Playmate shortly after his wife gave birth (unless you’re a conservative Christian and believe that to be a disgusting sin that you consider disqualifying from office... in which case, your support of Trump makes you a lowlife hypocrite

I'm sorry, I started to read your post and this was as far as I got.

Are you saying that there's no such thing as Christian liberals who feel that adultery is a sin and yet still voted for Bill Clinton?... or you don't think that there are non-religious liberals who think that because of the pain and suffering caused to the family of a cheater then that makes the cheater less worthy?

... kind of convenient.
"It's alright if the politicians we vote for are immoral, because we don't believe in morals."
 427cammer
Joined: 3/1/2008
Msg: 93 (view)
 
migrant caravan
Posted: 11/1/2018 11:58:43 PM
BaldwinMotionPhaseIII:

>>>originally, i was talking about the average worker doing a mindless repetitive job, apparently I should repeated myself to make it clear who i was talking about. I just don't imagine immigants rolling Snap On tool drawers across the Mexican desert so they can replace brakes at Mercedes Benz in Houston--Billybob may still have nothing to worry about :)

Okay so you don't think illegal immigrants can be mechanics or plumbers. So I guess the stereotypical jobs for these brown people are what?... housekeepers?.. nannies?... house painters?... gardeners? (robots won't be taking over any of these jobs in my lifetime)

^^^^ ...a lot of these jobs could have been filled by US citizens just getting out of school.... now instead, where are these young people going to go?... they will apply to be apprentices and helpers to plumbers and welders and mechanics and carpenters.... but because there is now an abundance of people applying for these positions, they will be paid less than otherwise.

I realise that my posts are always peppered with question marks, but there is one question that I'd really like to hear an answer to:

Is it completely inconceivable to you that having an abundance of people willing to work cheaply at the bottom of the ladder will have a ripple effect at every rung of the ladder?... and with a more pronounced impact on the rungs closer to the bottom?

It is funny accountants were referenced, my father used to do his taxes on TurboTax b/c he loves computers, then hand that printout to our friend who is an accountant and did our taxes...who threw out all the work my father did, used his own program, and got a better result :)

In my early twenties I worked as a sawyer at a truss plant. Roger, the guy running the other saw, had been there several years before me and had dropped out of school in grade 10 or 11. Today, Roger works for the same company (which has expanded quite a bit over the years) but now he's the guy who designs the trusses.

Thirty years ago most homes around here were built pretty simply.... a 30' x 34' house would need 18 - 30' 4/12 pitch trusses... sometimes people got elaborate and wanted a vaulted ceiling in their living room in which case scissor trusses would be needed. Today house roofs are a lot more complicated, multi-pitch and multi-faceted roofs are the new normal.

Roger, with the help of a computer program, designs all theses trusses. Roger needs to know every detail about how a wooden truss is used in constructing a house... and he needs to be very sharp and be able to detect mistakes coming from the original architect and also from the computer program. Roger designs dozens of unique truss blueprints a day. Fifty years ago it would have taken dozens, if not hundreds of people to produce the detailed drawings that the truss builders use. Now there's just Roger and some engineer who I'm pretty sure doesn't design very many trusses at all... his main purpose at his job is to rubberstamp everything that Roger sends him so that their company can say they sell engineered trusses.

^^^^In my time at the truss plant they had a computer program that wouldn't be as slick as the new one which was run by Mark, who was a high school graduate. The company did not employ an engineer.
 427cammer
Joined: 3/1/2008
Msg: 72 (view)
 
migrant caravan
Posted: 10/31/2018 8:07:14 PM

^to revert to the thread topic, how does a mechanic or a plumber relate to migrant refugees taking those particular jobs?

Baldwin had stated that bluecollar workers should be more worried about losing their job to robots than immigrants. I stated that he was wrong.

Should a plumber likewise blame everyone else for not taking it upon himself to keep up with the newest plumbing technology as it becomes apparent it’s becoming mainstream and blame someone else when he becomes less in demand?

I'm going to assume that you want to stay on topic here and that you're just making an analogy.... in reality what you really meant to say would read something like this:

"Should a plumber blame his government for not enforcing his nation's borders when illegal immigrants come in and undercut his prices and therefore he becomes less in demand?"

Yes he should.
 427cammer
Joined: 3/1/2008
Msg: 70 (view)
 
migrant caravan
Posted: 10/31/2018 7:17:27 PM
BaldwinMotionPhaseIII:

Cammer wanted to know the concern over the electoral college

...no I didn't, I get it, you've got a lot of angst. As I said before, there's nothing unusual about an election process where voters in different regions have more power than in other areas. I'm tired of hearing about it... get over it.

as for white collar exmployees worrying about computers, you'll have to explain that one...has AI become as mainstream as robots in factories?

Do you somehow think that most bluecollar people work in factories?.... has it occurred to you that most of the mindless repetitive jobs have already been automated?... most of the bluecollar jobs that people are still doing take muscle power as well as brain power.

An accountant or an architectural draftsman can be replaced with a computer program.... TODAY. Try finding a robot that will replace the brakes in your car or fix the leaky sink.
 427cammer
Joined: 3/1/2008
Msg: 68 (view)
 
migrant caravan
Posted: 10/30/2018 9:22:57 PM
vlad:

So, hillary could win the popular vote until the cows come home. It means nothing under your electoral system.
I've been reading some comments on the Anywhere But Washington site.

Would you agree that clinton concentrated more on urban city dweller votes and did not give a toss about rural america?

You are right on the money. Trump campaigned in an attempt to win the electoral college and was successful... who's to say what would have happened if he had prioritised winning the popular vote?... especially if the lying media hadn't been reporting that a Trump presidency was impossible and untold millions (from either side) stayed at home election day because the outcome was a concrete certainty?

....from all of the crying and weeping that comes from south of our border I'm finally starting to realise how self-centered and world-ignorant that some Americans really are. Do they believe that in most countries leaders are elected by popular vote?... are they completely unaware that up here in Canada, Trudeau's Liberals got in to power with 54% of the seats in Parliament even though they only got 39% of the vote?


It's not a race thing. It is a class thing. The exploited south american who works all day for a greedy boss and an even greedier customer hurts ALL the working class.

.... and when you look at someone's statements long enough it's easy to see who has no problem with exploitation:


as for displacing jobs, the uneducated ones only take the jobs an employee doesn't need to speak english for, allowing those "real americans" to get customer-service, sales, and other higher paying jobs.


Now they may take an "under the tabl" job away, but what does a legal citizen need one of those for?


BaldwinMotionPhaseIII:

the average worker has more to worry about a robot taking over their repetitive job, as efficiency is the focus of business.

I think that white collar workers should be more fearful of losing their jobs to computers than blue collars should be worried about robots.


Million_Reasons:


Reality check:

The US has an upward estimate of 22 million "illegal aliens" or "undocumented migrants" (whichever your political bent prefers). But even if you don't buy that number and choose a lower estimate of 10 million...if you gave all working age a work visa or citizenship...what would be the impacts to the existing US citizen working class?


And if you don't grant a legal means for which these migrants to work, what are the impacts to them? What are their alternatives?

...all the more reason for the US to build that big, beautiful wall.
 427cammer
Joined: 3/1/2008
Msg: 43 (view)
 
migrant caravan
Posted: 10/27/2018 2:12:34 PM
BaldwinMotionPhaseIII :

427cammer questioned the intelligence of liberals, maybe he knows?

I asked John whether he believed liberals were stupid.... speaking for myself I said they were just playing stupid. The concept that introducing a large number of workers (who are willing to take less money) into a job market will lower wages is not complicated at all... this could be explained to a toddler. I was just giving unasked for advice to a guy who was being honest about trying to get his ideas across to a bunch of deceitful a**holes who would perform linguistic acrobatics all in order to avoid saying they understand his point.

There are intelligent liberals and there are honest liberals in the world, but a smart, honest liberal would never attempt to make the arguments you're making.

golly, how can a lib figure this out, its just so darn obvious, and yet others cannot?

So employers are taking advantage of an excess of workers in the market... if there was fewer workers (especially those willing to take lower wages) the employer would be unable to do this... according to John many tradesman have already left the industry to get factory jobs.

.... but keep telling yourself you're winning this argument.
 427cammer
Joined: 3/1/2008
Msg: 33 (view)
 
migrant caravan
Posted: 10/26/2018 3:28:29 PM
johnfromzelie:

my point was those jobs were legal jobs just ten years ago. many of the construction jobs are now 1099. employee responsible for taxes. others are straight cash for less pay. either of the two eliminate the 'legal job' from the legal citizen.

Do you really think the left are too dumb to understand this?.... they seem to understand it just fine in the context of protecting union jobs... I think most of them just like to play stupid when overwhelmed by facts.

...also, doesn't it seems quite bigoted when someone tries to make the argument that "those jobs aren't good enough for Americans.... we'll leave them for the illegals... who cares if they're underpaid".

illegals

Whoops!... I shouldn't be using this hateful rhetoric.... I meant to say scabs.
 427cammer
Joined: 3/1/2008
Msg: 7015 (view)
 
Will President Elect Donald Trump Last The Full 4 Years?
Posted: 8/10/2018 12:20:18 AM
2plunk:

Hey vlad dracul

I agree !
That electoral college thing is baffling.

Since I started using these forums ten years ago I've begun to pay a lot more attention to the nuts and bolts of US politics. I think I've got it somewhat figured out but I'm certainly no expert.

The electoral college system that the US uses probably guarantees a better representative government than Canada's own parliamentary system. If you ignore the fact that in the US people are not actually casting their votes for the President... they're actually voting for delegates who are entrusted to represent the person they voted for... the US system is simpler than our own, I think.

Each state has a set number of electoral votes which are determined somewhat proportionally based on that state's population... populous states like California and Texas will have a lot more votes than Montana or Vermont. From what I have gathered, in almost all of the fifty states the winner takes all. This seems to be the main point of contention among people... California (the largest state by population) may vote 75% for the Democratic candidate (and the dem candidate gets all of the electoral votes), while Florida may vote 50.5% for the Republican candidate (and the GOP gets all of the votes).... this is how a Presidential candidate can win the popular vote and still lose the election.

^^^^.... and after saying all that, I still think their system is more representative than our own.
 427cammer
Joined: 3/1/2008
Msg: 700 (view)
 
Post your unpopular opinions here.
Posted: 7/14/2018 8:20:10 PM
Vlad:

And the implication i made was that yous canucks and ozzies might enjoy giving the shermans a good shoeing.

Well that's certainly what us Canadians like to do. Our news tells us that we're much smarter than Americans... and now, after the election of Trump, they're telling it to us just that much more often. How a Canadian, upon review of what WE elected, could feel superior to anybody is a mystery to me.

...but that's how the world works. There is an awful lot of Canadians who love being smug about how bigoted we are not.... unlike all those slow witted and racist Yanks to the south of us.
 427cammer
Joined: 3/1/2008
Msg: 34 (view)
 
DIFFERENT Languages and Cultures
Posted: 7/3/2018 11:45:34 PM
Thanks, that was my question. I'd thought that adverbs were used to describe verbs and that was all. Either I was never taught differently or I just wasn't paying attention... breaking down sentence structure was never the most interesting thing for me.
 427cammer
Joined: 3/1/2008
Msg: 32 (view)
 
DIFFERENT Languages and Cultures
Posted: 7/3/2018 10:02:19 PM
drinkthesunwithmyface:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5JfFJ7R8pDs

.... so do you agree with Steven Pinker?... I see on his Wikipedia page that he is considered as a linguist (...someone who uses language?), but when Bono said "Fvcking Brilliant" is the word "fvcking" to be considered as an adjective or an adverb?

For myself, I have trouble categorising "brilliant" as either a noun or a verb, usually "brilliant" would be considered an adjective.... "brilliantly" is usually an adverb.... "brilliance" would be considered a noun, no? If pressed, in this instance I would lean towards calling it a noun... in which case "fvcking" is an adjective.
 427cammer
Joined: 3/1/2008
Msg: 1895 (view)
 
Israel
Posted: 5/28/2018 10:32:06 PM
47seagulls:

Yet the white christian that slaughtered in the mosque in Quebec City was not called a terrorist or even a "domestic" terrorist. No one called him a terrorist

Well, yes.... he was called a terrorist. He was called a terrorist by our Prime Minister and the Quebec Premier and the leader of the opposition... I can imagine that if I dug enough I'd find that Jagmeet Singh and Elizabeth May called him a terrorist as well. Hell... to my mind he fits the description of a terrorist. So I don't have a problem with people calling him a terrorist, and I've never heard nor read about people complaining of him being called a terrorist.

.... but a lot of people didn't like it when Harper called the Parliament shooter a terrorist.... maybe even yourself?... they have no problem with a Christian labelled as a terrorist but are angered when it happens to a Muslim.

^^^^ ...you've definitely proven vlad's argument.

There are crazy folks everywhere.

Yes there are.... but for some reason you decided to bring Trump's name into this. Is it his fault that people in Quebec got shot?... is it Trudeau's fault that this woman flung her own turds?
 427cammer
Joined: 3/1/2008
Msg: 1886 (view)
 
Israel
Posted: 5/28/2018 7:28:49 PM
#1869, 47seagulls:

I've noticed that when a Muslim mosque is spray painted or destroyed or gravestone pushed over in Jewish graveyards.....the sound the silence is deafening too from many sides. In Canada a white christian that supported Trump (according to his FB page) went into a mosque in Quebec City and slaughtered 6 men as they prayed and injured 19 more men - this was never called a "terrorist" attack. A Muslim man walked onto Parliament Hill in Ottawa and killed 2 - it was a terrorist attack. Odd that.

Are you for real?... you really couldn't have picked better examples (at least from Canada) to prove vlad's point.

Stephen Harper was roundly criticised after calling the parliament shootings a terrorist attack.... did anybody condemn Trudeau (or Philippe Couillard, or Andrew Scheer) for calling the Quebec mosque shootings terrorism?

You are either not very knowledgeable about actual events that have happened in Canada or you're just dishonest.

In Canada a white christian that supported Trump (according to his FB page) went into a mosque in Quebec City and slaughtered 6 men

...and in Langley a white woman who supported Trudeau flinged her own poop at a worker in a fast food restauraunt.
 427cammer
Joined: 3/1/2008
Msg: 13 (view)
 
Unsolved Mysteries Of Liberal Logic
Posted: 5/28/2018 6:04:52 PM
kutekrazykinkster:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vkYtsWIJl8k

Millie Weaver breaks down the failed logic that liberals hold.

I'm a bit disappointed to be honest... more style than substance with this video. I can think of scores of failures in liberal logic more substantive than those in the video.


PieAlaMojo:

"I did in fact, take two paragraphs and make one sentence out of them that summed them up."

Not only did you do the above, but you also used your own words.
And then used quotations as if someone else said those words.
Does that sound more accurate?

Good catch!... I'm gonna have to read his replies more closely.

Don't hold your breath waiting for an acknowledgment of error.... Mach/gto is loathe to admitting when he's wrong.

^^^^Hah!... look at that... another thing he has in common with his president.
 427cammer
Joined: 3/1/2008
Msg: 126 (view)
 
Why do you believe or not believe that Climate change is taking place
Posted: 4/11/2018 11:03:23 PM
Sweet_Danimal :

People are also kind of miserable about realizing there are other hemispheres involved in the global situation... as miserable and long and cold as our North American Winter has been, the polar areas themselves have actually had above-normal temps...

The point I was making is that there are a lot of alarmists making alarming predictions which invariably turn out to be wrong.... it's because of these alarmists that regular people might not take global warming seriously.... moreso than those that are swayed by deniers. I wasn't attempting to say that our harsh winter is proof against climate change.

I know (or think) he was being facetious but drinkthesun's first point has some truth:

1 - The climate changes. It doesn't stay the same. Always has changed, always will change. If knowing this needs to be a belief or needs to be argued about, then something's wrong with you. It changes. End of story.

As near as I can find, earths temperature has risen by less than 1.5 degrees Celcius in the last 150 years... so maybe half or three quarters of a degree in the last fifty years?.... yet to the Believers.... they can notice. "Oh yeah this winter was definitely the warmest winter in my lifetime".... and then when we have a miserable winter "....well what would you expect... they call it climate change for a reason. It's all the melting at the icecaps and then sweeping all that cold air into Canada".

No matter what the weather is doing some people think it is strange and we "have never had weather like this before".


How this all pans out with climate change really doesn't matter. What humans are doing is air pollution, plain and simple. Arguments have been made for decades what is acceptable, livable, tolerable to the local environment, etc... but it has always been judged and limited and regulated to specific areas and specific situations. We all breathe the same air. This ocean of gases exchanges and moves across all continents constantly. Humans are miserably myopic to their own local worlds and situations. Putting this into a global perspective is really what SHOULD be done. The sucky part is how to manage it. Nobody want to lose control or their own little corner of the world.

I kinda agree with all of this. Can you think of a solution?.... I'm thinking we might be better off waiting for that magical arrival of technology to save us.

Do you think our governments could ration out fuel to each person or family?... or is it more likely that they'd just try and increase taxes enough that people made a significant cut to their fuel consumption because they could not afford it?.... such a tax would affect prices on everything... do you think people would stand for this? If Leo DiCaprio is still tooling around in his yacht, and Al Gore is still in his jet (because they can still afford fuel) but middle class dads can't take their kids waterskiing do you think we won't choose a government that serves us better?

I've talked to Believers in my personal life as well as online about what they do to cut back on greenhouse emissions... many of them don't do anything. Friends that I was real close to 20 years ago who like to express how much they think the oil companies are screwing our planet have gotten downright offended when I mention how they've burned more fuel hauling their horses to polo tournaments than I do driving for a whole year (in my previous job... I probably burn more now). These type of people chortle on about how we should have solar roofs and electric cars and yet they don't buy 'em... are they waiting 'til our government mandates that they make changes? Do they think it's unfair that they would cut back unless the rest of us are forced to as well?

When Warren Buffet talked about how it was unfair his secretary paid a higher tax rate than himself.... did he write any cheques to the IRS?.... did he direct his accountants not to take advantage of all the deductions that make his low rate possible? Does former President Obama pay extra in taxes?... does he maintain a low carbon footprint for his family?
 427cammer
Joined: 3/1/2008
Msg: 118 (view)
 
Why do you believe or not believe that Climate change is taking place
Posted: 4/11/2018 5:35:06 AM
drinkthesunwithmyface:

This topic is still discussed in such a stupid way too often.

....and then you make a list. Now on that list, there's only one item that you think is a stupid way.... am I correct?

....anyhow.... I'll make a list too, but on my list will only be things I agree with and I won't try putting words in someone else's mouth.

1. It doesn't matter if every living person in Canada, or the US, or the whole planet is on the same page, and everyone absolutely believes that man is causing global warming, until technology advances quite a bit farther than it is now our dependency on burning things to provide energy will continue.... all of us believing the same thing isn't going to magically speed up technology.

2. It all depends on money... if half of our population don't believe in man-made climate change.... and these same people also believe that is vitally important to keep our oilfields (natural gas, coal) going in order to keep people working..... it wouldn't matter one bit. If technology did magically appear that allowed us to say goodbye to fossil fuels
the oilfields and tar sands and coalmines would be abandoned within a year.... the unemployed people would be forced into other employment.... the billionaires who supplied us with oil would now be the billionaires supplying us with electricity.

3. It all depends on money.... if your new fridge is energy efficient but only lasts 10 years where your old fridge lasted for 30... you probably are not saving enough money on electricity to buy three fridges instead of one. What this boils down to is that more energy is used in manufacturing those three refrigerators than one would have used.... when the manufacturer slaps that Eco-friendly sticker on their appliances they are lying.

4. I have always thought that real scientists don't mind people questioning their opinions.... now we are being force fed an ideology and are being told if we question it we will be ridiculed. And they lie about it. We are told that 97% of scientists believe that man is a major contributor to climate change but if you do some research you will find this is not true.

These "scientists" who are trying to tell us that we must agree with them?.... they don't understand the science of psychology very well... the more they demand compliance, the more I want to question them.

5. There are alarmists out there.... just this week on Facebook somebody posted a cover of Maclean's magazine (Canada's version of TIME) from 2012 that announced that our prior winter was the warmest since sixty-some years ago and also that Canada may never again experience a "typical Canadian winter". Fast forward to today and we're setting records for low temperatures.... I can still snowmobile from my house across the ice on a nearby river.... I don't remember ever waiting this long for the melt-off. When alarmists make predictions that don't come true, it is way more damaging to the climate change movement than to the people labeled as "deniers".
 427cammer
Joined: 3/1/2008
Msg: 65 (view)
 
My off topic rant
Posted: 4/7/2018 3:07:30 AM
In my previous post where I provided a link to the other thread and it came up with purple text and was an ACTUAL link that you just clicked on?........ that's never happened for me before. Every other time I tried linking to another thread anyone wanting to follow that link would have to copy and paste it to their browser. I've seen other posters who would have the purple links in their posts and I always meant to write them and ask how it was done but I've just never been much of a letter writer.

But finally I know the truth.... it's magic. Apparently I have been here long enough that I have become a God.


trinity818:

Damn...Cammer. I used to like you.

This one is for you: (Msg 44 in response to your post)

I'm not too worried whether you like me.... I've seen posts from you stating who you have liked and didn't like. Frankly I feel more at home in the "not liked" pile.

I'm not sure what point you're trying to make here.... I've already said (twice) that I had no problem with our interaction in the other thread.

The only reason I brought it up is because a) this was the first time I'd seen you refer to your abusive upbringing and
b)you used Earthpuppy's story from his abusive childhood as a reason I should accept his skewed thinking that it was okay to call another poster a misogynist because this poster dared to say that sometimes women abused men as well.

^^^^I figured by this logic than your own story must be the reason you decided to be a cheerleader of the aforementioned weak-minded post. Sorry that you got butt hurt.


MachlMustangll:

"does this jive with the statement you made earlier?"

>>>I made a few statements earlier, could you specify please? thanks in advance.

Am I really that bad at getting my point across, or are you just playing stupid here?

These two statements which came from you:

myself:

Somehow we have arrived at a point where if someone expresses views against abortion they are automatically called a "woman hater". Why is this?

>>>there are certain places you can go and hear this, yes. You can also hear people tell you the earth is flat. That man never landed on the moon. That 9/11 was an inside job by a Republican president. Do you think these are normal, well adjusted people who make these claims?


I do label Republicans who stick their noses in woman's health issues and try to limit their abilities as misogynists.

Do these two statements jive? Would this be an example of your own hypocrisy?

If John Wayne was to do a movie today, would he whine about feminists or the #MeToo movement denying himself something? I just can't see it.

It's just a matter of perspective.

>>>I do, b/c while I don't support the daliances of either Billy, Newt, or Trump, at least BC wasn't a total f'ing disaster in the White House. Every week, they fire someo........
all the way to:
......itter, so why should he be so thin skinned to be treated the way he treats everyone else? we had a name on the playground as children for people who could dish it out but not take it.

I'm guessing you have no idea how whiny this sounds to me?

Probably even the barber shop scene in the movie Gran Torino went over their head.

Just another matter of perspective... if you like the characters who said those lines you could see that a joke was being made. If not...

If Don Rickles (or Al Franken for that matter) were ever caught on tape saying something like "...you can grab them by the p****" would anybody have even blinked?... I mean if he'd said it before Trump, before the #metoo movement?

^^^^ ...what I found offensive on the Billy Bush tape was him talking about putting a move on a married woman.... making a joke about grabbing someone's p****?.... I hear edgier stuff every single day.
 427cammer
Joined: 3/1/2008
Msg: 54 (view)
 
some white cheese to go with that white whine
Posted: 4/6/2018 11:28:19 AM
Firstly... who ever said I was a Trump supporter?

Secondly.... I don't hate Trinity.... she used to be okay (including the interaction I indicated). I don't like it when she makes shitty posts and lately that's all she's been doing.

I don't think I've ever seen anything BUT shitty posts coming from you so I'm not going to try holding you to a higher standard.
 427cammer
Joined: 3/1/2008
Msg: 52 (view)
 
some white cheese to go with that white whine
Posted: 4/6/2018 10:39:14 AM
MachIMustangII

I'm not sure how pulling someone else into an attack on my views, attacks my views, but to suggest her past makes her unable to think...well, you would have done better just attacking what it was she said

I didn't pull her in... she was there all on her own.... she jumped in willingly. Many years ago she jumped to the defense of another poster I was arguing with by claiming his (the other poster's) history of being raised in an abusive household was excuse enough to justify his own skewed thinking. Nothing too exciting about the whole exchange but you can read it here if you care to:

https://forums.plentyoffish.com/14734151datingPostpage2.aspx

It is posts like hers (the one in this thread) which I find to be the absolute worst in social media. She doesn't contribute any views of her own but effectively just dog piles onto the attack of another poster.... I see it all the time (not just her), and while I certainly don't call it out every time I'm not going to feel bad about the times I do call it out.... so don't give me your white knight bullshit.

I do label Republicans who stick their noses in woman's health issues and try to limit their abilities as misogynists.

^^^^...does this jive with the statement you made earlier?

myself:

Somehow we have arrived at a point where if someone expresses views against abortion they are automatically called a "woman hater". Why is this?

>>>there are certain places you can go and hear this, yes. You can also hear people tell you the earth is flat. That man never landed on the moon. That 9/11 was an inside job by a Republican president. Do you think these are normal, well adjusted people who make these claims?

Is this you admitting that you are not normal or well adjusted? (.... I mean... any worse than the rest of us.... we're all here wasting our energy posting on a forum which has become a sort of forgotten, dusty corner of the internet....)

When people who criticize Obama for the exact same things they compliment Trump for doing...well, how else you want to explain the hypocrisy?

People are hypocrites (note the example given above). That's no proof that they're racist.

Also, you criticise Trump all the time for behavior which Bill Clinton got away with.... do you somehow think that because a higher percentage of Trump supporters are Christian that somehow Bill's dalliances were okay?.... it's simple... if you didn't rail long and hard against how immoral Clinton was than you have no business raking Trump over the coals.

Or vice versa.

what time in the past do they want to return to? why don't they want to move forward, make America a place that accepts all races? wouldn't that be great?

Twenty years ago David Letterman regularly ridiculed the poor English used by NY city cab drivers in order to get laughs and further his own career (I have always liked Letterman).

Nowadays someone who publicly complains that they have trouble understanding their doctor's strong African (or Asian) accent will almost certainly be labeled as an alt right bigot.

Why is it that Democrats have no problem recognising the union thinking that if a company brings in low income workers to compete with union workers wages will drop.... but having millions of low income workers coming across your southern border doesn't hurt the wages of born and raised Americans?

Being aware that people immigrating from other countries may experience difficulties because of cultural and language problems is good; one should also be aware that they inflict these difficulties on the people they interact with as well. Does America still refer to itself as a melting pot?..... I can tell you that would be preferable to having people coming here and forming there own little communities in which they can speak their own language and not integrate with our existing culture.


trinity818:

Interestingly enough, you never had a problem with our resident head cheerleader KJ doing just that repeatedly.

I know that's what you guys called her.... I didn't notice it much... possibly because she made lots of posts where she was standing on her own and fighting her own fight.

Eric, the cyclist (the one you guys liked to call Becky.... isn't it funny how liberals think it's an effective way to demean their opponent by calling him a woman's name) was more of a cheerleader.... he was always more positive though. I don't think I ever seen him say a mean word and he wasn't the type to cheer on someone for calling someone else a white trash wife beater.
 427cammer
Joined: 3/1/2008
Msg: 45 (view)
 
some white cheese to go with that white whine
Posted: 4/5/2018 9:11:33 PM
chameleonf:

Seniority isn't a great barometer either. I've seen plenty of people staying in positions for years they had no place being in the first place which actually caused many, more qualified, under their authority to leave because of the ineptitude in a Trump-esque sort of way.

I agree, seniority is often over-rated. Also promoting someone based on whether they pass an exam isn't necessarily making sure the cream rises to the top; I know several people who would do better in leadership roles than myself who probably wouldn't be able to outscore me on an exam. It's not that these people are dumb... some people aren't good at writing or get nervous when testing.... oftentimes this doesn't translate into anything meaningful in real life situations.

I'd just assumed this was normally how people were promoted in the Philadelphia Fire Department... quite often when talking about union jobs seniority is a big factor.


MachIMustangII:

>>>Golly, what a high class gentleman! In order to argue with something I said, you had to attack a lady.

I "attacked" (if by attacked you mean that I repeated something that she has shared here in the past) Trinity because instead of offering her thoughts to the debate she decided it was necessary to make a post with the sole purpose of being a cheerleader to a post which includes the following:

I don't live in a world where white men are as afraid as you are. We went to college, got educated, got a good job, and we get paid what we are worth. I'm sure if I went to the other end of town, I could find white trash who live in such fear, who feel so powerless. They can't slap women around like they used to.

This is a weak-minded post. There's nothing I've read from the Op that suggests you're correct in your assessment of him... it's a chickenshit move to characterise people who disagree with feminists as white trash woman beaters.

....also I didn't just go after Trinity. I remembered to attack you.

>>>there are certain places you can go and hear this, yes. You can also hear people tell you the earth is flat. That man never landed on the moon. That 9/11 was an inside job by a Republican president. Do you think these are normal, well adjusted people who make these claims?

See, I could almost swear that I've seen you label Republicans broadly as misogynists.... also I'm certain that you have labeled people who are critical of Obama as racist. Would you say this isn't true?... even with your previous profile?
 427cammer
Joined: 3/1/2008
Msg: 34 (view)
 
some white cheese to go with that white whine
Posted: 4/5/2018 11:32:07 AM
MachIMustangII:

I don't live in a world where white men are as afraid as you are. We went to college, got educated, got a good job, and we get paid what we are worth. I'm sure if I went to the other end of town, I could find white trash who live in such fear, who feel so powerless. They can't slap women around like they used to. People don't listen to their nonsense anymore just b/c they are a white man speaking, they actually have to make sense now in order to be heard. Showing up for a job interview white and male just isn't enough to get the job anymore.

You've managed to become very, very stupid in the last two years.... I can actually believe that your brain did melt when Trump was elected. (Sure, Trinity likes what you have to say; but she was raised in a house where her father was abusive towards her mother.... her worldview is skewed compared to the majority of us raised in a non-abusive household).

Maybe a couple of years ago I listened to a CBC radio program hosted by Piya Chattopadhyay (extremely liberal). She had interviewed a firefighter from Philadelphia (I think) who, even though he had seniority, and passed the required exams, was never going to be promoted to chief because the department was focused on promoting women and minorities. The host, in her summation of the segment, came out and said that she thought the white firefighter was a victim of discrimination.... she did manage to sound a little horrified and gobsmacked to be saying it.

Somehow we have arrived at a point where if someone expresses views against abortion they are automatically called a "woman hater". Why is this?... can no one imagine that some people are just horrified to think that babies are being killed and it has nothing to do with a hatred towards women?... or is calling a group of people "haters" just make it easier for your group to find a place to focus your hatred?

(...and I'm not really taking an anti-abortion stance here... I'm kinda up in the air concerning this topic... I have trouble with people insisting that life begins at the moment of conception, but I can understand why people can be horrified by stories of late term abortions.)

People are right to think that hiring or promoting an employee based on race or gender is wrong. They're right to think that the issue of abortion has nothing to do with the hatred of women. Still.... there is a significant portion of our population who think it's okay to discriminate against males because somebody's mother was the victim of abuse fifty years ago and somehow believe this will make things "fair".

...it's stupidity. Once in a while, when I feel like it, and I see you engaging in the practice of "backing the liberal viewpoint no matter what", I'll point out your stupidity.
 427cammer
Joined: 3/1/2008
Msg: 484 (view)
 
Guns a right but healthcare a privilege?
Posted: 3/10/2018 10:52:38 PM
dragonbytes:

I contributed my suggestions, but this tends to be an endless debate, it will never be settled, I don’t think there is any reason for me to continue with the debate.

That's fine.

Although I'd think that if endless debates that never get settled make you uncomfortable then you should avoid political discussions altogether. Has anyone ever managed to convince YOU enough to say to yourself "Gee... maybe I've been looking at this all wrong.... that other person's arguments are a lot more convincing than my own"?

It’s not just gun registration, though I think it would have a mild effect on safety.

While looking at Wikipedia's page on our long gun registry, it appeared that it was a pretty mixed bag as to how much support our police officers had for the registry. (from my recollection) In one survey, conducted by the RCMP polling their own officers, results were about 75% supportive. Another independent survey reported about 75% were against it. In the article, the only reason I could find that was given by cops who support the registry was that "when responding to a domestic violence call-out, it is better for the officers to know ahead of time whether there will be guns on the property".

^^^^.... which is true... if 100% of all guns are registered. If 99% of guns are registered, then the police are still better off not making assumptions. If only 50 or 60 or 70% are registered.... you have nothing.... a complete shot in the dark whether there are guns in the home or not.

There is much more accountability with cars, I think a similar accountability with guns would help.

Almost two years ago myself and my friends at work were having our morning bullshit session and I guess we must have been talking about terrorist attacks. Only two weeks earlier I had attended my city's Canada Day fireworks celebration and I mentioned to the guys about how deadly it would be if someone were to take a 4WD 3/4 ton pickup.... just like the one I drive for work, along with 10,000 others in Grande Prairie.... and go on a killing spree in the city park with half of the city's people lounging on the grass of the creek banks. Just like most other days, we finished our talk and I went to work.... some rig somewhere needed me out there fixing something.

Later that day, when I was finished at the rig and got back into my truck to do my paperwork and check my phone, I had messages from my buddies all excited about the Nice, France attack.

Attacks like this, from my point of view, are unpreventable. Billions (or trillions) could be spent in an attempt in to make certain that large groups of pedestrians are never in an area where they are vulnerable to a vehicle attack and the killers will still find a way. Create new laws and the killers will just ignore them. Making attempts to identify the killers before they kill seems like our best bet.

A big reason Canada’s effort failed because it was so easy to buy a gun in the USA and take it to Canada.

Uhhmm, no.

I suppose criminal gangs in border cities like Vancouver and Toronto might smuggle a fair number of guns in... I have no idea. I can tell you that in my area I doubt that the registry accounted for more than 70% of all guns. I can also tell you with 99% certainty that I have never laid eyes on a gun smuggled in from the US (I knew a guy who had a pistol that he said his grandfather had smuggled in from Germany after the war).
 427cammer
Joined: 3/1/2008
Msg: 447 (view)
 
Guns a right but healthcare a privilege?
Posted: 3/6/2018 1:17:08 AM
Platinum_Blonde_Angel:

This is quite a provocative question that should merit it's own thread!

Why do I get the idea that you're not here to take part in the discussion at hand... you're here gloating over KJ's demise... a snivelling yellow cur just here marking it's territory?


dragonbytes :

Individual guns should be registered like they register your car. Track the serial number, when ownership changes then you need to transfer ownership. Have a national database of all guns.

My government tried a long gun registry 20 years ago. One of the many problems with this registry is that people just didn't want to register their guns.... I know many people who didn't bother to register their guns at all (the whole concept was ridiculous to them), other people who registered SOME, but not ALL of their guns.... I think it was a minority of people who made an honest attempt at registering all of their guns and following the law completely.

How do you think the accident rate would be if we treated cars like we treat guns?

I don't think by having their cars registered makes people safer drivers.

I live in northern Canada.... some years we have ice and snow on our highways up to four or five months. How much more likely is it that a child up here will be killed in a vehicle accident than murdered by a gun?... 1000 times?.... I'm guessing that it'd be closer to 10,000 times more likely.

....and our school buses don't have seatbelts.

The only place the police can turn for help is a Kafkaesque agency in West Virginia, where, thanks to the gun lobby, computers are illegal and detective work is absurdly antiquated. On purpose.

I could type here for hours trying to recount the many stories of inefficiencies and ineptitude I have heard about our system of licensing gun owners in Canada (some I've seen first hand). My suspicion is that the people who work to provide services to gun owners are not motivated by trying to keep us safe.... they are like every other government agency... they are motivated by bureaucracy. They don't want to streamline the process because that means there'd be more of them out of work.

It is the RCMP who look after this for us.... they are not being controlled by the gun lobby.
 427cammer
Joined: 3/1/2008
Msg: 424 (view)
 
Guns a right but healthcare a privilege?
Posted: 3/4/2018 10:30:47 PM
dragonbytes:

It doesn’t seem that mysterious to me.

Firing an automatic weapon into a large group of 22,000 people all grouped together with little space separating them, one doesn’t need to be accurate at all.

Firstly, maybe I'm mistaken, but I had kinda thought after the initial burst of shooting people had dispersed and attempted to take cover.... so not so much a large mass of people anymore. Secondly, I was never trying to say that hitting 50% of the shots fired was an impossibility.... it was that I would have expected less people to have been wounded by bullet strikes (if 50% of the bullets struck targets, that doesn't necessarily mean that each of the bullets struck a different target... I would be less surprised to see multiple people struck five or ten times each than having almost 500 different people hit with gunfire).

Anyhow, apparently I am wrong. Colour me surprised.

A lot of people consider it unacceptable, while some think a small percentage of the population will die by gun violence.

I think that it's unfair to make it sound like there's a significant amount of people find shootings like this to be "acceptable" (I know... there are people who have expressed it this way... I just think they could have expressed themselves better).

Instead, I think it is fairer to say that people don't believe that law makers can provide a solution to the "crazy people with guns" problem in your country.

I haven't seen it recently... but in the past I have seen posters here who say that "Canadian gun laws" would make things better (after all.... our murder rates are not that dissimilar to the UK or Australia). From the investigating I've done, I don't think this is true.

Plain fact: it is not hard for a Canadian to acquire a non-restricted weapon... even at 18 yrs old. Also... there are a lot of so-called "black rifles" that are non-restricted in Canada.

What would be your suggestions to US law makers?... do you think going beyond Canadian gun laws could make people give up their guns?


ForumLurker

Damn KJ, just two posts and they got you!

Well that sucks.
 427cammer
Joined: 3/1/2008
Msg: 406 (view)
 
Guns a right but healthcare a privilege?
Posted: 3/4/2018 11:24:06 AM
dragonbytes:

The Las Vegas shooter shot 1100 rounds, killed 58 and wounded ~500 and the shooting lasted 9-11 min. Looking at rounds, about 50% hit, though 5.2% killed.
..........
So I think the virtually automatic firing was more destructive.

I hadn't done any research into the Las Vegas shooting before posting, and to be honest I'm not very knowledgeable about it. I could watch news people talk about it for about 5 minutes and realise they were covering the same ground as the news casters who had been talking about it an hour previously.... so I tuned out. I doubt I watched more than a minute of video taken during the shooting, I didn't find it fascinating enough to overcome my discomfort at watching people in terror.

So I was surprised to see your number of 500 people injured.... I thought "Yeah.... but probably a lot of those people were injured from getting pushed or stepped on... not shot." According to Wikipedia there were 851 people injured, 422 with gunshot wounds.

The sceptic in me still wants to argue.... "Yeah... but that must include a lot of incidents where a bullet hit concrete and fragmented into a dozen pieces and the shards that injured the victims barely penetrated their skin.....".

In my mind at least, mathematically, to have 480 different people hit with bullets from 490 yards (according to wiki.... so further than 1200 feet) when 1100 rounds were fired by the bumpstock method.... that's an amazingly high percentage of hits. I don't believe in conspiracy theories and I don't believe that law enforcement would somehow hide the existence of a second shooter, but those numbers are a lot higher than anything I would have expected to see (as a comparison, there were 200 bullet holes in the hotel door and the hotel security guard was only hit once.... from Wikipedia).

At any rate, comparing the Florida and Las Vegas shootings is kind of pointless. Two different shooters with I'm assuming different skill levels, different methods and differing amounts of preparation. So I'm not completely convinced he wouldn't have caused more damage if he had been firing semi-auto.

MachIMustangII

as far as firing full auto, a target moving from left to right or vice versa is easier to hit with multiple rounds rather than one, b/c if you try to line up your sights, by the time you pulled the trigger, they've moved from that location


Yes, I could believe this. I'm not sure how many moving targets there were as opposed to people huddled in groups. Hitting a moving target at 500 yards would be tricky no matter what.

Wikipedia mentioned that he had tracers.... does anyone know if he had tracer rounds mixed in with all of his mags?
 427cammer
Joined: 3/1/2008
Msg: 4 (view)
 
The Islamic State of Sweden
Posted: 3/2/2018 6:24:23 AM
vlad:

Of course merkel could be lying about the problem.

We won't know until Snopes or Politifact do a fact check.

I'm sure the reporter from Fox thought he was being truthful when talking about "no-go zones" in France, but, after being fact-checked, it turn's out government officials would not verify there were such things as "no-go zones".


VVVVV Halforhalfnot:

bald faced liar

Okay.... so now if it turns out there are places in France where regular citizens fear to tread, who are the ones who are really lying?

.....or are there no such things as "no-go zones" until someone in the government says so?

 427cammer
Joined: 3/1/2008
Msg: 381 (view)
 
Guns a right but healthcare a privilege?
Posted: 3/2/2018 6:13:24 AM
MachIMustangII:

And if you go to youtube and try "bumpstock AR-15", well, you'll find videos like this...does this seem like rapid enough fire? would you want to face it with a revolver, or would you feel outgunned? watch as many of the videos as you want, decide for yourself how difficult it is to create this "bumpfire" the media is all hot to talk about now:

You're right... the "bumpfire" effect is easily achieved just by the way the rifle is held. From the little bit I've looked at the videos you mentioned, I'm pretty sure I could modify a regular stock into a "bumpstock" in half a day's work out in my shop.

... of course with a bit of research, and a few more tools (I've always wanted a milling machine), I could turn one of the rifles I already own into a fully automatic gun. With a few more tools yet, and given time, I'm sure I could build one from scratch.

I'm no military expert, but I've been of the understanding that one of the major advantages of fully automatic weapon is psychological, like you mentioned, everybody wants to keep their head down and nobody wants to fire back. For the Las Vegas shooting, where there was nobody shooting back, my guess is he would have been deadlier if he'd kept his rifles shooting semi-auto. For the original few mags, shooting into a mass of people fully auto might have been deadlier, after that, when people had scattered and huddled in small groups, I'm guessing he only hit with the first or second shots of his magazine... the rest was wasted. He would have been more dangerous if he'd been firing semi-auto. Hell, after the original bursts into the unsuspecting crowd, a decent rifle man could have done more damage with a bolt action or lever action.

^^^^pure speculation.... just my thoughts.
 427cammer
Joined: 3/1/2008
Msg: 364 (view)
 
Guns a right but healthcare a privilege?
Posted: 2/28/2018 11:16:46 PM
MachIMustangII :

Does your sentence mean that you don't agree with your laws, either? That was my take, I figured you answered your question for me.

I'm sorry.... did you think I was unsure of my own opinion of my country's gun laws?

seems like both our laws are silly and self-contradictory :) it just seems like passing laws to make people feel good and have a false sense of security like you said, rather than passing laws that can offend voters but step closer to a solution.

I misspoke when I said false sense of security... Canadians are absolutely right to have expectations of making it to their next birthday without getting murdered. The chance of any of us being murdered is infinitesimally small... much smaller again if we avoid criminal activity and abusive relationships. I should have said "misplaced sense of security". It's okay for us to feel safe, but we shouldn't credit our gun laws.

Our laws are silly and self-contradictory, I think this is one of the few things we can agree on. My thoughts are that if my government trusts me enough to fire high powered rifles on my own property... and they trust me enough to have a pistol and ammunition in my home... then I should be trusted enough to shoot my pistol on my property. I don't trust my government to make sensible laws... more often the laws made are meant to add to government bureaucracy or just a cash grab.

Nobody puts a government in place so they can pass laws that people don't want.... a government that "offends it's voters" is overstepping it's bounds.

hopefulhunk:

One thing I started looking into was your mental health comment.
You guys have a socialized medicine system in place. Better care perhaps?
Folks are going to scream Obama care...
Which basically forced our healthy to subsidize care for the ill.

I've only ever lived with government funded healthcare.... we have lots of problems in our system (I could go on at great lengths but not gonna).... and really I'm not that familiar with the US system..... but still I'll say that I like ours better. The one real reason is this: I don't want anyone turned away because they can't afford insurance; I don't want anybody to be hundreds of thousands in debt because they had an unexpected illness. If we are to give subsidised healthcare to our poor than why not the middle class?... if the middle class than why not the upper middle class?

As I say, I have no real experience with your system..... so I might be wrong.

I really have no idea why there are more school shootings over there than here. We definitely got our own crazies.

Making direct comparisons between our countries is difficult.... we have thousands of differences between us and its tough to say which difference occurring over here is causing the different result happening over there.... at the same time I'd say the US is more similar to Canada than any of the countries in Europe. I hear that we're supposed to be quite a bit like Australia.

WhiskeyRiver:

I was raised and lived out in the country all my life....I seriously, never needed a gun for anything.

I spend a decent amount of time walking or quadding or skidooing in the bush. Unless I'm looking for a partridge or a rabbit for supper I never carry a gun.... which certainly isn't bravery, and maybe could more accurately be described as foolishness on my part. If a bear, or a cougar, or a moose decide to attack me I could very easily be killed.

There's a much higher chance that I will be attacked by a wild animal than a student in the United States will be killed in a school shooting.

bigbadnirirish:

People with "rifles" kill way more people per year than people with "Swiss Army knives"

I really hope the point you are trying to make here is:

"If you want to lower murders done by knives.... it'd be silly to ban Swiss Army knives."

If not you'd better start again.
 427cammer
Joined: 3/1/2008
Msg: 546 (view)
 
Post your unpopular opinions here
Posted: 2/27/2018 10:37:07 PM
So now babblefish is gone too?


Platinum_Blonde_Angel:

I once knew a woman named Carla.

She used to love to fry herself in the sun on the beach in Daytona.

She looked like a turd in a kitty litter box in the last pic I saw of her sitting in the sand in Daytona Beach.

You women sure are catty.

If men were catty like women were I might say something like:

"I once knew a man named Razor'sEdge.

He used to post quite a bit in the political threads and it was obvious to everyone that he was halfways in love with a flirty little brunette who was MUCH too young for him.

... once she revealed her real pictures he gouged out both of his eyes with his thumb and is now living as a monk in Tibet"


....but I'm not catty like that.
 427cammer
Joined: 3/1/2008
Msg: 333 (view)
 
Guns a right but healthcare a privilege?
Posted: 2/27/2018 10:21:03 PM
MachIMustangII:

. But, the interesting point is, Moore's focus WAS on the amount of guns in Canada AND the fact it doesn't lead to the results we have here. He figured it may be something in the differences in culture.

About 5 years ago there was a story of a middle age US law enforcement officer who was in Calgary vacationing with his wife to watch the Stampede. When he got back home he wrote a letter to his local paper complaining about Canadian gun laws.... apparently him and his wife were walking through a local park when a couple of young males approached them... either asking for directions or asking how they were enjoying the Stampede... I can't remember. It turns out that this frightened the couple because he was not packing a sidearm and so he wrote to his paper to complain.

Now, from my point of view, this incident couldn't have been scripted better to showcase how ridiculous some Americans are about their guns. I'd be willing to bet that a majority of even the hard-core gun guys (of which I am not... up here I'd just be another guy who owns a few guns) in Canada don't want to be armed in the city and are glad that no one else is packing as well.

So there is a difference in gun culture, yeah. My thoughts are that this type of gun culture can result in incidents like that of Trayvon Martin, but I don't really think it's this type of mentality that caused Columbine or any other school shooting.

You didn't answer my question.... do Canadian gun laws seem sensible to you?.... if Canadian gun laws wouldn't have stopped these school shootings what is the reason they are happening in your country a lot more than mine?... possibly mental health issues?

America does have a jihad (hey, there's a word) culture. We'll interfere with any government that affects our bottom line ....................... all the way to ................................... when the stock market crashes and only gold is traded. we are a paranoid bunch, we have our bunkers ready.

I don't buy into any of this conspiracy theory crap.

Just spitballing but one difference I do see between the US and the rest of the world is the amount of self-loathing that happens with you guys. You've also got it going in the other direction as well with the fiercely, oftentimes stupidly, overly patriotic people.... but I just look at these people as a reaction to the self-loathing people.

In Canada our left wing-nuts might call our past Conservative PM a war-monger... maybe a few have even called him a murderer... but almost nobody feels Canada is a murderous war machine as a nation.... nobody hates our soldiers.

Alright... we didn't go to Iraq. But the UK did. As well as Australia. I'd bet there's a lot less people in either of these two who are willing to slime their Armed Forces as so many in America do.

there are other theories for the increase in shootings--like, for example, we're drugging up the kids more. Asian countries, if I remember correctly, stress out their kids over achievement tests, but they tend to commit suicide rather than wipe out a school. So, do we take dangerous tools away from people who can't act maturely...or do we train people to act more maturely with their tools?

A few years ago I somehow heard about a spoilt little prick named Elliot Rodger who posted several rants on Youtube before killing seven people in a drive by shooting. His videos are still up... I couldn't watch much, but it's apparent his biggest beef is he couldn't get laid. Was that a common theme among most of these shooters?.... I couldn't get laid in high school either (and quite honestly I'm not setting any records currently) but I never got psychotic about it.
 427cammer
Joined: 3/1/2008
Msg: 327 (view)
 
Guns a right but healthcare a privilege?
Posted: 2/27/2018 7:57:52 AM
MachIMustangII :

Micheal Moore (yes, yes, I know) did Bowling for Colombine, you probably can borrow it from your local library, asking why is there more shooting here than over the border in Canada. One point I remember was the absolute selling of fear in this country.

Is that the fear of seeing people who own guns?

I remember one of the conflicting facts that Michael Moore was honest enough (surprisingly) to bring up in that movie was that lots of Canadians have guns too.... maybe not so much in Toronto but if you go a 100 miles north of Toronto you would likely see guns in most households. And not just hunting rifles... there are a lot of guns that some would call "assault weapons" that I can walk in and leave the store with five minutes later.... and if I want two of them... no problem. You hand over the cash and flash them your FAC card and you walk out... at least in some stores. Other stores might ask to copy the information on your FAC card for their personal records... but they're not required to do so by law.

Here's some of the guns that are non restricted in Canada:

https://www.huntinggearguy.com/rifle-reviews/top-10-non-restricted-black-rifles-in-canada/

I've got my FAC and also can buy Restricted, but I'm not completely sure what sets restricted apart from non restricted when it comes to long guns (all pistols are restricted)... from my understanding it is some combination of being semi-automatic combined with rifle caliber and length of the barrel... an AR-15 is a restricted weapon in Canada which surprised me considering the guns that I know to be non-restricted.

The false sense of security some Canadians get from our gun laws is a bit silly.... in the bigger rifles we are limited to five shots in the magazine.... the magazine will still hold 20 cartridges but it is limited by a 3/16 " pop rivet from sliding all the way down.... it is against the law to drill out that rivet and nobody in Canada has ever done it.

My house is located 400 yards from a fairly busy 4-lane divided highway on 130 acres of land. I can (and have) set up targets facing away from the highway and plink away at them from my covered deck while having a few drinks with my buddies. I've got a .22 calibre semi-auto pistol that I cannot fire from my deck... it's a restricted weapon and can only be fired from a gun range. We have never done this (because 130 acres just isn't big enough), but I could have my buddy bring over his .50 cal Barrett sniper rifle (which is non-restricted) and fire it from my house.

^^^^....so... do Canadian gun laws seem sensible to you?
 427cammer
Joined: 3/1/2008
Msg: 507 (view)
 
Post your unpopular opinions here.
Posted: 2/17/2018 2:47:28 PM

Funny that you mention those 2 names.

You're a wingnut.

I've seen you make these insinuations before... ie: that KJ's profile is fake (and now you seem to have a problem with crookcatcher as well.... out with it... say what you've got to say and stop it with the veiled accusations). I've seen at least two active posters here who have said they actually met with KJ in the real world.... both of these posters are a lot more believable than you.

Knock it off with your stupid shit.
 427cammer
Joined: 3/1/2008
Msg: 5621 (view)
 
Will President Elect Donald Trump Last The Full 4 Years?
Posted: 2/11/2018 2:43:42 PM
trinity:

I intended to state that you are supposed to CITE your source. You implied in your post that this quote should be attributed to someone else.

I've made this same statement to John about his failure to cite his sources. Do you get a free pass?

The bit where it seems he is being accused of plagiarism is a modified version of Colonel Nathan Jessup's speech from the movie "A Few Good Men". It was a very popular movie and parts of that particular speech has been used over and over again in pop culture references.... it is easily recognised by most people.

If someone were to say "Yabba-dabba-doo!" do they have to stop and say Fred Flintstone said it first?
 427cammer
Joined: 3/1/2008
Msg: 863 (view)
 
On Fox News today..
Posted: 2/8/2018 11:05:50 PM

It's just hilarious to see.the very thing talked about posted immediately after.

You rarely post nowadays... I'd almost think that when you did post you might attempt at contributing something with a bit of thought that might cause others to ask themselves questions>
 427cammer
Joined: 3/1/2008
Msg: 5141 (view)
 
Will President Elect Donald Trump Last The Full 4 Years?
Posted: 1/2/2018 12:38:17 AM

the old and tired Trump will be impeached and then Pence will be impeached and then Ryan we will impeach and then Hillary will somehow magically become the president of the United States

I actually find this pleasing.... there's a symmetry to it.

These people who desperately cling to the idea of finding the missing piece of information that'll somehow make Trump's Presidency illegal are exactly the same as the people who desperately clung to the idea that Obama was not born in the US... thereby making his Presidency illegal. And who was the biggest birther of them all?... I enjoy seeing the people who hate him the most have so much in common with him.
 427cammer
Joined: 3/1/2008
Msg: 7 (view)
 
local government
Posted: 12/4/2017 11:42:01 PM
junipermoon:

i appreciate the views expressed here. and, yes, listening is key. and i count that as a skill i've honed as a writer when i spend so much time listening to those i interview.

One thing you're gonna find is that there are people who are going to disagree with you completely on the fundamentals.... in order to be a good representative, I'd think that it'll be your job to maintain civility and remember that, for the most part, the people who disagree with you are not stupid, and they are not evil (at least no more stupid or evil than a lot of people who do agree with you). If you remember that, and you actually believe it and behave accordingly, you'll probably never make any newsreels but you'll be better than all of the politicians who have become a lot more famous.

....on the other hand, they say that the squeaky wheel gets the grease. Maybe loud, in your face politicians that we see all the time are more effective. They bug me.
 427cammer
Joined: 3/1/2008
Msg: 122 (view)
 
Post your unpopular opinions here
Posted: 10/2/2017 1:27:12 PM

I prefer Gregg's version of "Midnight Rider" on his "Laid Back" album over the original.

^^^^ This reminded me of Waylon Jenning's version of "Midnight Rider"...

...which in turn reminded me that he and Jerry Reed did a very good version of Sam and Dave's "Hold On, I'm Coming".

...on topic: I like Nickelback.

Edit to add:
...and I just thought of this... in some instances I like pineapple on pizza.
 427cammer
Joined: 3/1/2008
Msg: 86 (view)
 
oh, golly, i've lost another fair weather friend :)
Posted: 8/31/2017 9:06:06 PM
gtomustang:

>>and it shouldn't be--its doing two tasks. If you do two jobs, do you only want to be paid for doing one job? :) Its only fair to be paid for doing more work than the rival. I wouldn't label that a spin. Now if someone wants to quote that the installation cost is the same, then yes, that's incorrect (it contradicts their point), but you asked about the title, and the title says, after energy production is factored in.

I never made the claim that Tesla's roof should be cheaper... I would expect that a solar tile roof should be significantly more expensive than a "regular roof".

^^^^....but you already knew that.

....I do disagree with a "news" organisation that chooses to lie to people because they want to push an agenda.... but that's hardly important either... every "news" organisation (that I know about) has an agenda that they want to push. Some of them (like the one at the top of this thread) blatantly lie in order to further their message.... most others are more insidious... they only ask certain questions... they push one side of a story a lot more than the other... etc.

Of more interest to me than the dishonesty of countless "news" organisations, is someone with whom I am communicating with directly who is too cowardly to label a news article as a lie when it is blatantly obvious that the article is lying.

... I mean, we both know the article is a lying piece of shit. Do you imagine that by doing your little dance of pretending the article is truthful you are going to convince one of the seven (or so) readers of this thread into going and buying a Tesla roof? Do you lose attaboy points with the hardcore leftists if you don't toe the company line?
 427cammer
Joined: 3/1/2008
Msg: 84 (view)
 
Tesla releases details of its solar roof tiles
Posted: 8/26/2017 2:27:05 PM
gtomustang:

2) the problem with protectionist policies is that other countries return the favor, hurting our industry.

For the most part I agree

3) the original title of the post claimed the cost was cheaper WITH warrantee and 30 yrs of power. It didn't claim the initial install price was cheaper and end the claim there.

Did you go back and read the article?

"CEO Elon Musk first hinted that it would be cheaper than a regular roof after accounting for energy savings, and later said that Tesla’s solar roof could cost less than a regular roof – even before energy production.

Tesla pretty much delivered on both depending on how you look at it."


It doesn't depend on how I look at it at all, Tesla's roof is not cheaper than a regular roof before energy production.... so the article is lying.

The article also attributes claims to have been made by Elon Musk that would make him a liar too... but since I know that the article is a lying piece of shit... I can't trust these claims.

Someone pointed out you work in the oil field and may have a bias as a result. We all "trust a little bit" in this post. If you don't trust the new technology, then that's fine...I didn't feel you were going to invest in it anyway. :)

I pointed out that I work in the oilfield.... I've never hid it. While talking with people I work with and work for it is common to encounter people who love the idea of being able to live off the grid. For a lot of people it just amounts to talk (including myself), some people do make investments in wind or solar power. I've always meant to learn more about geothermal.... I've been told that our climate is too cold for it to work up here.

But it is nice you are concerned with my thoughts, you Canadians are so polite :)

I was impressed a couple of years ago when you laid a lot of the blame for GM's failure at the feet of the unions and the overgenerous pension plans of the autoworkers.... you might have been the only lefty here who had the honesty to say that.

...but, you've fallen completely in my estimation. No matter what the conversation is you never miss a chance to slime Trump, or Reagan, or the Bushes or all of the GOP... you've become a partisan hack.

And why would you be spinning like a mad man trying to defend an article which is obviously a lying piece of shit?... what does that make you?

 427cammer
Joined: 3/1/2008
Msg: 81 (view)
 
Tesla releases details of its solar roof tiles
Posted: 8/21/2017 10:11:12 PM
gtomustang:

1) the tax credit isn't for the producers of the panels, its for the customers who install them. Of course, doing so has a "trickle down", if you will, for the manufacturers of the products who may get more customers.

???... if BigBadNIrish is correct about how the 30% tax credit works, the government will be subsidising Tesla to the tune of 30% of it's total income. If a homeowner buys a $100,000 dollar solar roof the government is paying $30,000 of the roof.... either in reduced taxes or tax refunds to equal 30% of the cost.

The government is playing favourites when they tax one industry at a set rate and another industry at a different rate.... but the 30% tax credit is going far beyond just playing favourites.

2) Cap and Trade is a Free Market "solution" to pollution, creating a market for pollution credits so that new factories/refiners/etc who pollute less, can sell their credits to older facitilites to get away with polluting more, the theory being there is a net amount of acceptable pollution. Not a fan of that or "cash for clunker" programs the Oil Companies invented either.

You know, I'm not a purist about any of this stuff.... if my government were to use protectionist policies that actually helped working people make more money, I'd have no problem.... whether anyone complained that we "weren't following free market practices" would not bother me in the least.

...but I recognise Free Market practises when I see 'em and cap and trade is certainly not one of them (and I misspoke before... I really was griping more about what my government was doing, which I guess could more accurately be called "tax and cap".

Is the dishonesty about the Tesla panels mentioned in the beginning of this post?

...well yeah.... the headline of the article in the OP was "Tesla releases details of its solar roof tiles: cheaper than regular roof with ‘infinity warranty’ and 30 yrs of solar power"

First of all, myself, and I think most people, consider shingles to be regular roofing for their homes. At $21.85 per square foot for a finished roof, solar tiles are much more expensive than installed shingles.... maybe by as much as a factor of ten.

I guess some people, who live in fancier neighborhoods than I do, might say that a tile roof is "regular" and also costs less than a solar roof.... but they probably weren't reading the original article which said this:

The $21.85 per square foot price point was calculated for a roof where 35 percent of the tiles are solar (solar tiles cost more per square foot than non-solar tiles).

....so there's at least one lie in the headline.... why would I trust the article even a little bit?


...also I already read that article about Reagan.... it tells me nothing about YOUR thoughts about whether someone who says "You know, Jimmy Carter had solar panels installed at the White House and the first thing Ronald Reagan did after taking office was to remove them" is unfair in their depiction of Reagan.
 427cammer
Joined: 3/1/2008
Msg: 78 (view)
 
Tesla releases details of its solar roof tiles
Posted: 8/19/2017 10:56:16 PM

Around here at least, it doesn't seem necessary, the tax credits probably accomplish a similar thing, and that ends up being more Free Market, which conservatives love.

....no. Tax credits to select companies or industries (and sometimes raising taxes on competitors) would seem to me to be the very definition of protectionism... and I doubt like hell conservatives are fans at all. Lower taxes to all corporations (at least low enough to be competitive with other nations) is what conservatives would like.

I can understand the appeal of protectionism in theory... it's natural that people would want to try and keep manufacturing jobs at home. If China were able to produce the exact same solar tiles as Tesla... for 1/10th of the price.... and citizens of every other country were buying the Chinese tiles.... how does the US deal with such a situation?

Keeping illegals out, and limiting immigration, seems like a lot better bet at protecting American jobs.

I am 47, and being retired, i'm not driving to work everyday, so my mileage/emissions is less than most people, and I still have two modern vehicles from my parents to recycle, so yeah, a new car and its depreciation isn't the best investment of my money. Here in my corner of home state, electricity still comes from coal and an over-extended nuclear power plant. But in the future as things change....

Okay. Just as long as you're not one of those wealthy hypocrites who support stupid policies such as Cap and Trade which disproportionately targets the working class while doing nothing about providing legitimate, affordable, alternative energies to people..... I hate those type of people.


...and still nothing in regards to my query about the ethics of using dishonesty to push an agenda that you agree with.

...I guess no answer is an answer within itself?
 427cammer
Joined: 3/1/2008
Msg: 76 (view)
 
Tesla releases details of its solar roof tiles
Posted: 8/18/2017 9:56:24 PM
gtomustang:

so, Purplerider and 427Cammer, you've heard Trump say now that the Mexico border wall is in fact going to be made of solar cells...that a solar cell wall will offset the cost of building the wall. Now that you've heard this...what's your opinion of solar cells? Is Trump and the liberals right? Is Trump wrong and you're right? Also, what is all this free power going to do the the coal industry?

Seriously, I want to hear your opinions on this. Is Trump giving the tax payer a boondoggle?

???.... why would you think I should have an opinion on this?... in my very first post in this thread I mentioned that I am in support of finding alternative energies but that I'm also wary about spending large amounts of my money gambling on the current technology.... if I lived along the US - Mexico border solar panels would be less of a gamble than up here in northern Alberta.

What Trump does or doesn't do is of very little concern to me.... we've got our own clown up here that I'm a lot more concerned with.

What are your thoughts? Would you support Trump using solar panels on the wall?

...and also... would you support Trump using protectionist policies favouring solar companies in the US?

...and you never answered when I asked for your thoughts on the oft-told lie about Reagan immediately removing solar panels from the White House roof... or the dishonesty of the article quoted in the opening post of this thread.... care to tell me your thoughts?

...and also, the answer you gave when I asked why YOU don't use an electric car wasn't very satisfactory.... I mean you're 47 yrs old and apparently you're retired?.... you can afford to risk money investing in alternative energy solutions a lot more than I can... plus... you get the added bonus of being able to tell yourself that you're saving the planet... I'm not sure that I'd believe myself if I said those kinds of things.
 427cammer
Joined: 3/1/2008
Msg: 54 (view)
 
Tesla releases details of its solar roof tiles
Posted: 5/24/2017 6:19:37 AM
^^^^^^...'kay, I'm done... got no time for this waste of skin.


norwegianguy456:

First, 2,600 square feet is HUGE for a roof. I mean, that's a Good sized house -- but a ranch with no (furnished) square feet to count in the basement? Yuge, I tell ya. :

Not really. A home with 1800 square feet (say 1300 for the house and 500 for the attached garage) with 2' overhangs and a 6-12 pitch would have close to 2500 square feet on it's roof.

....not that it really matters. A roof with less square footage is going to produce less electricity and should take just as long to pay for itself.

TESLA ROOF:
$69,000 full install
- $15,500 Tax Credit (if you're getting Any roof on 2,600 sq ft roof; your income's enough to get $ back)
= $53,500 out of your pocket come tax season

... is this the way tax credits work?... I had thought it would be the same as a tax write-off in which case a person would only expect to see a certain percentage of that $15,500 in savings. Maybe 20 to 30 percent?

$259/mo over a 30 year mortgage @4.1%. About $110/mo INCREASE in your "electric bill"... BUT 3 happy factors:
- That's tax deductible. Say you get about 33% back -- So that's really about $73/mo more...

Again, I'm not sure about your calculations here. From my understanding of a tax deduction, you would only be able to write off the interest paid on the mortgage, which would not work out to anywhere near $73/mo in savings.

And of course, the increased price of the home if I Don't stay there for 30 years -- is that worth, the say, $40/mo extra on average extra I'd pay over time for normal electricity, by the time I sell it? Possibly.

Factoring in any increase to the resale of the house would be a mistake in my view.... if the roof was 30 years old and the warranty is expired I don't imagine you'd be adding any value to the home. A roof that was 15 yrs old would at best add $35,000 value to the home.

....BUT.... if people here are correct, and the price of this technology drops.... lets say 50% drop in 15 years. In this scenario a brand new roof for that house would be $34,500... if this is the case your 15 yr old roof that you bought for $69,000 is significantly devalued.

(if living in sunny area).

This is quite important... anywhere where people would expect to see snow on their roof would probably not want this type of system. Purplerider mentioned in his post about the efficiency of these tiles decreasing significantly when dirty... I suspect he's right about that.

People, on a large scale, won't pay for this type of roof to be chic... they'll be doing it to save money. Breaking even after 30 years will not appeal to most of them... breaking even after 20 will still seem risky to most...

....especially if they were told right from the start that this type of roof was cheaper than shingles... people might not put a lot of trust in a company that uses advertising like that.
 427cammer
Joined: 3/1/2008
Msg: 50 (view)
 
raise the roof, people.
Posted: 5/23/2017 9:49:31 PM

Correct, you are to take one sentence out of a couple of paragraphs and try and nit pick it apart and ignore everything else that refutes your claim.

I didn't nitpick anything.... if I had the time or inclination I COULD nitpick every part of that article apart.

I chose that one sentence because it was representative of everything else in the article... ie: Reagan's critics are critical of Reagan. Did you read the rest of it?... do you actually believe it provides any proof that would back your claim?

NOW... if David Suzuki had been telling the truth, and the first thing Reagan did was to take down the solar panels.... well that would be compelling evidence that could bolster your claim.

Did Reagan remove the panels?

If the answer is yes than he is not lying.

Now this is why you aren't worth my time.

Suzuki said he took them down as one of his first acts. A lie. Admit it's a lie and move on.
 427cammer
Joined: 3/1/2008
Msg: 45 (view)
 
raise the roof, people.
Posted: 5/23/2017 5:04:34 PM

Critics argued that the Reagan program illegally delayed the promulgation of EPA regulations, "subverted statutory standards, and excluded the public from full participation in the regulatory process.

I suppose an idiot might see a sentence like this and believe that there is clear proof being provided of SOMETHING....

...anyhow...

..... do you want to take David Suzuki's side here?... was he not lying?


In the first post of this thread was it an endorsement of the following article when you wrote:

This is the future, not coal.

Now that it's been shown to you how the article is a lie, are you going to pull that endorsement?.... my bet is no.
 427cammer
Joined: 3/1/2008
Msg: 43 (view)
 
raise the roof, people.
Posted: 5/23/2017 2:04:07 PM
gtomustang:

Ronald Reagan, the man who tore solar panels off the White House

On a radio program I was listening to yesterday an interviewer was talking to David Suzuki (Canada's Al Gore). The interviewer brought up Jimmy Carter's name and Suzuki jumped on this "You know, Jimmy Carter had solar panels installed at the White House and the first thing Ronald Reagan did after taking office was to remove them".

^^^^.... except this is a lie. It was 1986 when the panels were removed to resurface the White House roof. I seriously doubt that Reagan was showing any malice towards Carter (or solar energy in general) when he oked for the panels not to be reinstalled (it occurs to me that he had very little input here at all... someone made recommendations and he signed off on them). I can think of lots of reasons to remove these panels.... being mounted on the roof would have caused leaks.... old technology batteries were crapping out continuously.... having a White House staffer being paid $30,000 a year to maintain a system that would save $300 in electricity... etcetera.

...but the narrative that Reagan was an evil s.o.b. and he wanted to screw the environment is what we are told, and this is what people keep repeating.

Why would it be necessary to ask people to believe lies, and then repeat those lies?... I'm guessing that some people feel that lying about this subject is completely acceptable.... the ends justify the means. Do you feel this way?
 427cammer
Joined: 3/1/2008
Msg: 36 (view)
 
raise the roof, people.
Posted: 5/14/2017 8:10:39 PM
LOLTrump:

If that was your attempt to clarify what you meant then you are doing it wrong.

Several days ago I explained how CBS news was dishonest in a story concerning Trump's administration, the FDA, and Fox news. It was obvious. Now someone might twist themselves into knots trying to show that the possibility of CBS's claim could possibly still turn out to be true... but news organisations are not supposed to report something as fact without proof.

And you denied everything. You said it was all true.... which proves you are either:

a) a liar... or...

b) stupid

I've seen where others are are calling you "Frank" and "Aristotle"... there was also "HalifaxRob"?.... "Bluenose something or other"? I'm betting these other posters are correct, in which case I have seen this behaviour before where you show great amounts of dishonesty/stupidity.

...so I don't feel compelled at all to clarify myself to you. If I feel like engaging with you at all, it will be to point out your dishonesty or your hypocrisy or your stupidity.

.... like for instance the dishonesty at the very top of this thread claiming that Tesla's solar tiles are cheaper than regular roofing. Do you feel any necessity to refute the claim made in your very first post?... come on, surprise the hell out of all of us.


gtomustang:

for some people, solar is worth a look-see.

I've often thought about getting off the grid. Love the idea of having no monthly payments (except phone... and probably internet). Living where I do, wind power always felt like it'd be the better bet to get me through the winter. The main problem I see is cost and reliability.... and also the batteries and the amount of maintenance a large system seems to require.

30 miles west of me there is a farm alongside the highway that installed two big wind turbines about seven years ago. Driving for work, I pass by this farm usually once or twice a week. At first I was quite excited... the propellers were probably 20 ft in diameter .... wondering when they were going to start cranking out power. Once in a while, when the winds were really strong I would see one turning slowly but it was very rare. I'd ask around and the gossip I heard was that the farmer spent up to $200k on these turbines (believable... 'cause they were BIG) and they seized up in the first week. Since then he's been fighting a lawsuit... It seems to me he finally took them down a year or so ago.

^^^^and this really doesn't turn me off wind power completely... I just want to be very careful.

Do you have an electric car?.... do you have $70,000 worth of solar tiles on your roof?

....there's a very large group of people who hate Donald Trump and also seem very angry with anyone who are the least bit skeptical about global warming. If everyone who voted for Hillary Clinton actually bought solar tiles and an electric car, they could save the planet without any help from me at all.
 
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