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 Author Thread: this ladies, is how good guys become jerks
Joined: 4/12/2008
Msg: 164 (view)
this ladies, is how good guys become jerks
Posted: 7/6/2017 9:33:37 AM
So, it's interesting looking at this post years later, after the OP has left.

Everything from the title of the post to his defense of his attitudes and actions screams what many nice guys apparently desire - pure, unadulterated pity, with no smartass remarks to dilute it. That's their meat and potatoes, but a side of sympathy wouldn't be bad, either. Both are in short supply here.

There needs to be a forum where this is the rule: a nice guy puts forth how the world is unfair, and we are allowed only to give him the pity that he seeks. Seriously. Give him what he wants, 'cause life is short, it ain't fair, and we don't need any more latent serial killers feeling society has rejected them for the last time. It's no skin off our backs to type a few kind words expressing how sorry we are for him, is it? I trust you'll sleep at night if you don't really mean it.

And shame on us for discounting his past deeds, unilaterally branding them as driven by an ulterior motive, whatever that may have been. Our penance should be to commit a random act of kindness. But just one, 'cause any more and we'll be seen as nice guys or gals, and nobody wants that. Yeah, it's a hassle to do a good deed, so just imagine you'll get something you want out of the experience. Wait a minute . . .

We kinda rely on people like this, don't we? They make us feel better about ourselves. Look at that guy - he was deluded by a woman that wasn't into him. What a sucker, defending that homeless guy and getting a scar for his trouble. Eew, that woman is choking on her own barf - glad it wasn't me that helped her. At least the deeds were done. Subtract his efforts - would you have taken his place? Maybe, or maybe a homeless guy would get beat up, a drunk gal would die, a woman would have friend-zoned one less chump - we don't know, but it sure swings with popular sentiment to condemn him for his patently insincere actions. Crowd mentality online is compounded by the relative anonymity factor, innit?

The best advice I saw for him in these responses was a comment by a woman who said no matter how nice a guy is, she still had to be attracted to him. Seems simple enough, so people should realize that being nice may or may not be a component of their attractiveness, and it certainly isn't the whole of it. Let's not forget that people have proven time and again that they don't really know what they want, so why try to anticipate it? Be who you are, satisfied in the knowledge that even if you have personality traits that seem off-putting, someone may still find you attractive. And not feeling like a patsy for unrewarded effort may keep your sociopathic impulses in check. Yep, an unfair world can actually work to your advantage - imagine that.
Joined: 4/12/2008
Msg: 3 (view)
STUDIO CITY New Stylish Lounge Party FLASHBACK DJ on FRIDAY JULY 26th!
Posted: 7/24/2013 12:43:35 PM
Yes, it's a nice club, and this sounds like a good event. I'll be entertaining just down the street at Fox & Hounds that night until 1:30AM, so unfortunately I won't be able to make it.
Joined: 4/12/2008
Msg: 79 (view)
Why must the guy do it all?
Posted: 7/12/2011 1:37:30 AM
Kudos to the POF community for not deleting this thread, or dismissing it as yet another "poor, pitiful nice guy" post. The OP has a real problem, one that should demand a bit of sensitivity. I hate to break it to you guy, but yer not gonna find it here. From the comfort of their computer chairs, forum-ites will make it sound like you only have the option to be bold, when few of them are themselves. There are some nice ideas expressed, just the same:
charlie_girl_2 makes perhaps the best point, that you're a bit impatient.
LilliMarleen gave the most unique answer so far, that it's just biology.
mateo45 correctly discovered that though they don't wish to initiate, women are perfectly capable, and even predisposed, to judge our attempts at the same.
Simon4567 should be awarded a medal for expressing the quandary many women leave men with during our attempts at courtship. And yes, most creeps are confident, gals.
World traveler valenciacityx hints at the fact that American women are culturally more inclined to wait for the man to initiate, but that this isn't necessarily the rule abroad.
Laha Math is a wise sage that almost invites you to allow one woman to set you up with another. That doesn't take much intestinal fortitude, does it?

Like a few here, I can relate to your issue, as I was a painfully shy kid with a Godzilla of a mother, quite a bad environment for formulating a confident way with women. I stumbled upon the discovery that women can be attracted to you just by your status. I think I found it out too soon, as it made me a lazy dater. When women start coming to you, you don't really need to work on your game, and shyness might even be an advantage.

In brief, power, money or fame - or any status that has groupies - is what you'll need if you've got no dating chops. Let's see which shoe fits you.

Are you an aspiring politician, or judge, or DMV clerk? If not, power isn't a good fit. Unless you're on track to win the lottery, I'm guessing money is out as well. That leaves fame, which can be had in many forms, and to many degrees.

Sports, entertainment or infamy are the chief routes to immortality. At 5'8", I'm guessing you're not the next Michael Jordan. The Def Jam t-shirt looks promising - can you rap or sing? If all else fails, you could follow in the footsteps of Clyde Parker, David Koresh, or Jeffery Dahmer - all of them had female groupies.

Once you've landed a squeeze, remember that your duties have just begun. Guys do have to do it all, until they bury you. Take sex, the thing that takes two to Tango - it's actually all on you. Libation , suggestion, initiation, preparation, stimulation, protection, lubrication, erection, ejaculation, satisfaction - you think a woman could/would do all this? Give 'em a vibrator, a DVD of The Notebook and a pint of Cherry Garcia, and see if they'd choose you for the evening instead, knowing they'd be responsible for the details.

Us jaded folk could easily ruin your expectations of future fun and frivolity with the opposite sex by making it seem less pleasant than it is. Find what works for you and do it, but don't wait. You may already be on the road to increasing frustration, which could lead to contempt for the opposite sex.
Save that for your stand-up act later in life. This is the time to get busy. After all, the devil makes work for idle hands, and probably other parts as well.
Joined: 4/12/2008
Msg: 81 (view)
Instant turn offs, legitimate gripe or just nitpicking
Posted: 10/23/2010 2:31:38 PM
Others haven't complimented you, but I'm compelled to note that you have the perfect post. It's the equivalent of drive-thru therapy - tell us what irks you in five minutes or less. That will be $50, please.

Ahhhh! Guess it's a good thing we became friends before I used age restrictions! Do you remember why I finally put those in my profile? Probably not, but I do! HA! Age liars.
- verygreeneyez

EVERY woman I've talked with on this site has been untruthful about her age. There's a great foundation
for an honest relationship. I feel like hanging up when they reveal the truth, but I don't. Shame on me.

If online dating bugs you that much - get out. I did. I complain a lot less now.
- happybunny8

People here are born complainers, so I've been on the offline "diet" for months now. My dates have dropped two dress sizes and look much younger
Joined: 4/12/2008
Msg: 80 (view)
Is a 9 year age difference too much?
Posted: 9/4/2010 7:27:28 PM
She's a bit long of tooth for you. Early twenties - there's the money gals.
Joined: 4/12/2008
Msg: 38 (view)
Who they consider the right one.
Posted: 7/23/2010 11:56:51 PM
This makes me think of all the weddings I went to in the 80's, and the divorces I learned about of nearly all of those same couples in the 90's. Most of these were first marriages. All of those hopes and dreams bundled into a few promises and white lace. All of those wedding invitations mailed out, all of the relatives and friends traveling from distant points to celebrate the union of the "right" ones. All of those gifts - shouldn't they have given 'em back later? Everyone trusted that they had made the right decision . . .

Is the current high divorce rate due to the perception of greener grass brought to our homes through the internet and 1000 television channels, or just a failure to differentiate "right" from wrong?
Joined: 4/12/2008
Msg: 37 (view)
Effort is it really worth it???
Posted: 6/16/2010 2:37:57 AM

I figured from the somewhat jaded tone of your post that you must be around my age, but I discovered that you are 26.
That came from a 62 year old woman. I guessed the same after reading your post.

How long have you dated, maybe nine or ten years, tops? And why dabble in online dating at your age? Others have indicated that all they did was go out during your same years, so if you're like them you should be meeting quite the pool of eligible women. Do yourself a favor and stick to real life dating, at least through your twenties.

On the other hand, you've struck a nerve with the older crowd, as we're the ones in genuine danger of being jaded. At the risk of sounding sexist, it just seems tougher for older men than older women. Women tend to be more connected and involved in groups that could lead to dating opportunities. Not all, but many approach dating as a passive exercise, so the effort gets shifted to the man. Men typically bear the expense of dating, and are generally expected to plan dates as well. Few women court men, but many like to "test" them in myriad ways to evaluate their suitability. All of this can get tiresome quickly, especially if results (however measured) develop slowly.

Add to this the lopsided ratio of men to women online, and ennui or disinterest can dampen all but the strongest libido in an older man. And as it has been pointed out here, that basic urge can diminish significantly with age, so what a woman has to offer outside the bedroom will be weighed against his other interests. The OPs question about whether or not the effort is worth it would then come into sharp focus.

But you're young. This is your time of sowing wild oats, so go forth and sow. It's the natural order of things - online dating is not. Take the advice of others here and don't preoccupy yourself with the effort of building a relationship. You were raised during a time of increasingly instant gratification, so your patience quotient is dangerously low already. Focus on enjoying the company of women and building positive attitudes towards them. Dump any that are high maintenance, so as not to muddy the waters for future prospects. Yes, this takes effort, but the effort is mostly for yourself, rather than for someone else. Someday your dating pool will not be so youthful and baggage-free, so that balanced mental foundation you create today will be crucial for dating women in the future.
Joined: 4/12/2008
Msg: 22 (view)
Book:Why He Didn't Call You Back
Posted: 6/10/2010 2:15:52 AM
There are some great responses to this post. To directly address the title, I almost always call a woman after a first date to thank her. I universally get voice mail, so I guess women prefer to take good or bad news indirectly. If I'd like to see her again, I tell her to call me and we'll make plans. It seems to me that women with "interesting" attitudes about what is proper (read: women around my age) paint themselves into a corner by employing voice mail. With rare exception, they don't call me back, so I assume they're not interested. What I've often discovered through the grapevine is that they may be interested, but won't allow themselves to "call men", even if given direct permission to do so (from a "warm lead", no less). All I can think of is how such a woman might react (or not) in an emergency, since the 911 operator could be a man. They don't get a second call, or a second date.
Joined: 4/12/2008
Msg: 47 (view)
What would you think if dating never went expensive??
Posted: 6/10/2010 1:14:37 AM
I would think that I've died and gone to heaven. It took me 30+ years of dating to have a woman take me out for once (just a hot friend - not a date) and though it was just cheap drinks at a dive bar, I had the time of my life. Two women hit on me that night, probably because I was such a jovial fellow. Had one woman that I was interested in in my younger days ever paid for a date, or even just fought me on the bill a bit, I would have proposed. I guess I saved money in the long run : )

So who are you people? Dating doesn't "have" to cost money? Coupons? Going "Dutch"? Women standing in line for hours to eat Indian? Guys afraid of spending money? Women actually paying for dates, or even chipping in from time to time? This is some alternate universe. Now where do I find it on a map? Seriously?

I'm motivated to not look cheap - there's no pride involved, or penchant for expensive eateries and activities. No woman likes a cheap man, yet few actually know whether their date can afford a decent night out (and it wouldn't concern them anyway in my town), so it's up to the man to just make it memorable and suffer later. Women guilt us into this, and it can make dating unbearable for many men. And "tit for tat" won't fly - you can't expect her to pay next time out, or expect something physical in return. Most desirable women (this probably doesn't apply to Plain Janes) have options, so if you expect to maintain their interest, you must pay.

Seriously, how do you convert an attractive woman's interest into money-independent attraction from her? What free or inexpensive activities would be appropriate for someone who lives in high heels and is dripping in jewelry? I had an old Bentley that featured picnic tables in the back seats - is this the idea? How do I play it off and not look cheap? I need a coach.

Farceur, you are funny as h*ll, and probably on the nose, truth-wise. I want to bequeath you my cast-offs, all of whom think theirs is gold plated.
Joined: 4/12/2008
Msg: 42 (view)
How do you feel about being touched by people you don't know?
Posted: 6/7/2010 2:58:52 PM
Kudos to ChinaShopBull for the great term, "incidentally intimate".

All right, how many of you "non-touchers" were bottle fed? How many weren't held much as children? A quick look at the animal
kingdom tells us that touch is one of the most important elements in bonding and social development.

This is a great litmus test for me, as I will never again date a woman that isn't into touching and being touched, or needs what I consider to be too great a space bubble. I should know, as that described me up until my twenties.

For me, it was probably the fact that the only "touching" I received from my parents and siblings was at the end of a belt, broom stick, tennis racket or fist. I learned quickly to distrust touch. This changed slowly after women started jumping me at the end of dates because I avoided touching them completely.

The uptight people here either never grew out of their distaste for touch, or never enjoyed it in the first place. And you know it isn't just limited to that from strangers. My ex used to viciously yank my hand away from her knee or small of her back if I caressed her, even for a moment. I recognized that there was more to this than just a "preference", and later I discovered she suffered from clinical depression. I now look at aversion to touch as a red flag that may indicate emotional issues, but YMMV.
Joined: 4/12/2008
Msg: 89 (view)
Why are women attracted to musicians?
Posted: 5/9/2010 7:38:28 AM
Five years old - this post has legs! Dunno why musicians strike a chord with women. And not all women are attracted to 'em, frankly, and I'm glad of that fact. Take your typical overachiever types, weed out the droll and dumpy ones, and the rest will be at your show - it's a true ego stoker. It doesn't hurt to be from some far away place like America, or that you're staying at some exclusive hotel, or that you'll be leaving the next day - all the fun is there if you want it. But as has been expressed here, it's different strokes for different folks, and there are far more responsible rock stars these days than you'd imagine. It's called a show for a reason - much of the act is theater, and not reality based. As an example, we got booked on a death and speed metal bill in Mexico City, with all these tattooed guys screaming gruesome lyrics in Cookie Monster style. Backstage, we discussed wives, mortgages, babies - these were some of the nicest, most normal people I've met. I realize that I can't hope to dispel all the myths about musicians in a single shot, but I can tell you that the left brain/right brain stuff I've read here is crap. Musicians are often gifted in mathematics and other analytical fields. Just the same, I don't recall autographing any breasts after a particularly dynamic lecture when I was a professor . . .
Joined: 4/12/2008
Msg: 77 (view)
Going to resturants alone
Posted: 5/9/2010 6:51:05 AM
You live once, people. Not only should you not fear going out alone, but you should look at it as an opportunity to meet people, should you so desire. I've set out to dine alone many times, but often I didn't. I've politely asked other single diners if I might join them. I've even asked groups. My preference is women, and I recall being turned down only once, as someone joined her soon after I inquired.
It may take intestinal fortitude, but the rewards can be great. One woman I joined for dinner led me to a client I still represent.
Joined: 4/12/2008
Msg: 12 (view)
What do guys reckon about girls with demanding careers?
Posted: 4/11/2010 10:40:01 AM
Well you already have tatts, so you'd fit in as a sailor . . .

But seriously, demanding careers are sexy in a woman, at least for me.
Joined: 4/12/2008
Msg: 9 (view)
what's the difference between a girl you want to be with and the girl you just want to be on top of?
Posted: 1/30/2010 3:42:25 AM
Generally, the keeper would possibly go on a picnic with me, rather than insisting on a swanky restaurant, like most hookups do. One's a partner, the other is a princess.
Joined: 4/12/2008
Msg: 35 (view)
The Shape of a Face
Posted: 1/29/2010 6:13:35 PM
Actually, a friend of mine pointed out a long time ago to how babies react to faces.
They seem to be enamoured with beauty, and react very negatively to what most of us would call 'fugly' people.

Was your friend a Ph.D candidate? One from Stanford came over to our house when my sister was in diapers and showed her a bunch of faces. She mostly cried, but she calmed down when she saw an Uncle Fester-type face with a prominent bald head. Apparently, faces tending toward the hydrocephalic are what infants are drawn to, according to much research into the matter (don't ask me why there's research at all - it left me dumbfounded).

Cool post, OP. I don't subscribe to "judging a book by its cover", but I'd venture that most people have a face type.
Joined: 4/12/2008
Msg: 8 (view)
Guys, how long does it take you to know about chemistry?
Posted: 1/28/2010 4:12:25 PM
Before a date is through, I'll know. Life is short - be decisive.
Joined: 4/12/2008
Msg: 65 (view)
Should he find out?
Posted: 1/27/2010 10:40:47 PM
I think 'patent rights" is a whole 'nuther thread . . .
A woman chooses, since only she can get pregnant. When we start parsing the letter of what should be an inalienable right, our society crumbles just a bit faster, IMHO.

Telling the dad is a different issue, with strong arguments on both sides. As if just having sex wasn't political enough . . .
Joined: 4/12/2008
Msg: 43 (view)
Stalkers, in different cultures
Posted: 1/26/2010 2:19:23 AM

In many other cultures, the ones who would be stalkers end up just skipping the stalking part and go right to rape or kidnapping.

Women in the US are wimpettes and scaredy cats who frighten easily, whereas women in other cultures are stronger and more self-secure.

Those are two interesting takes on it. I'll agree with those that credit our media-driven culture. Didn't we invent infotainment shows, after all?

I count almost ten stalkers that I've had in my life. I appreciate female interest in me, but these were obsessed women that interfered with my job, family and privacy. I've even had two ex-girlfriends cyber stalk me to determine where I'd be so that they could "encounter" me at the right place and time. Besides my house, I've had uninvited women show up at my sister's place, in a classroom I was teaching in, at a Christmas party, and at a wedding. I never felt physically threatened, but it always creeped me out a bit and made for some awkward exchanges.
Joined: 4/12/2008
Msg: 32 (view)
Is the internet the place to meet a significant other?
Posted: 1/26/2010 12:50:01 AM
I've met quite a few dangerous irresponsible sociopsychotic neurotic insecure women that should be in therapy rather than a dating site.

Ha ha! This is hilarious, and somewhat true for me as well. I've stayed here for the entertainment value and the fora. If you're a man, you're at a distinct disadvantage online, and it will always be that way on all sites. That said, if you have a way with words, you'll eventually attract someone decent. What else does someone have to go on, other than your outdated picture? And I don't think all the women here are liars - some are just "honesty challenged", and way more into hooking up than they let on, although YMMV.
Joined: 4/12/2008
Msg: 127 (view)
Dating in Your 50's - Is It Tough?
Posted: 1/11/2010 3:23:46 PM
From Magic Marco:

All I did was replace all my pics with one of George Clooney in a t-shirt. I then forgot about it and clicked onto other things. About 90 minutes later , I went to my email. There must have been 15 messages from POF- ers .

Now that's sad, and telling. Marco appears to be a handsome guy with talent, a free spirit and a great place to live. And he's
doubtless orders of magnitude easier to meet than George. Tell me, Marco, did you feel that any of the GC pic respondents were
realistic about their chances with a movie star? I'm no GC, but at least a few women seem to like some things about me that were
simply my parent's doing. How difficult it must be for men with even fewer blessings to get by with women, let alone those in this
age bracket.

Personally, I find it much easier to date younger women, who generally have fewer "boundaries" (how I hate that term) than women my own age. But akin to eating a healthy food that wouldn't be my first pick (beets are one - don't they just taste like dirt?), I try to date in my own age bracket for the greater good. Although I've yet to be turned down for a date in 35 years (I date a bit less than I used to, to be fair), mature women give me the roughest time of all.

They look at my lack of marital experience as more onus than bonus. If I'm nice, they suspect me of being disingenuous. If I'm less nice, they think I'll abuse them. If I mention a past relationship, they get suddenly distant. If I put time, effort, money and creativity into planning a date, they intimate that they could do better if it were up to them, and then they forget to thank me. Even if the date is undeniably pleasant for both of us, and I give them a direct, friendly invitation to call me, the selectively "old fashioned" mature women never do, which cools my jets quickly. These may seem like sweeping generalizations, but they're simply the average of my "longer of tooth" dates. I recognize now that many of these women's attitudes and behavior towards men have no "reset" button if they've been burned by a man previously, so my prospects for success with them are usually slim at best. So yeah, it's tough.
Joined: 4/12/2008
Msg: 40 (view)
How would a woman feel about a gift like this?
Posted: 1/11/2010 1:15:09 PM

One poster gave the analogy of playing a piece of music for more than one person, but I think that would be different from actually writing a piece of music for one person and then playing it for others as though it were written for them.

Other than food items, I've never been the recipient of handmade goods from a woman I've dated, but I've been witness to plenty of handmade, personalized gifts given to women from men, and I'd suspect that many weren't appreciated fully. To the OP, I'd suggest switching to songwriting. There's more romantic potential for the effort, and far less sawdust. I've written and recorded a few songs for SOs over the years, and when one was rejected leading up to a break-up, I let it be used in a TV movie. The memory of the relationship may be bittersweet, but getting a royalty check every quarter a decade after the split is very heartwarming. And I haven't yet received any mail from female viewers complaining that the tune wasn't written for them, but I'm confident that some women here would still say it wasn't the right thing to do. For reference, my widow would continue to receive those checks, and I'd bet that she would care less that my expressed feelings for a past flame helped earn the money.
Joined: 4/12/2008
Msg: 31 (view)
Being unemployed and trying to date......
Posted: 1/6/2010 10:26:30 PM

There are a lot of women who have been "taken for a ride" by men who don't want to keep a job, they just want to move into her place and eat her food and watch her tv all day while she's working to support him.

I wish to be reincarnated as one of these men. How do they do it? Honestly, could one of you disenfranchised dudes give me lessons on how to be a leech? I want to begin immediately.
Joined: 4/12/2008
Msg: 96 (view)
Moving in
Posted: 1/2/2010 12:46:23 AM
I look at it a bit differently, but then I sell real estate for a living.

If you each own your own place already, nothing says "luv" more than buying a vacation home together. Now you have three places to be romantic . . .
Joined: 4/12/2008
Msg: 102 (view)
What do you bring to the table ...?
Posted: 1/2/2010 12:39:51 AM
Great illustration. How people view finances is really what the point is here. I'm impressed that the OP stayed with this thread for the last two months - bravo.

Say, an earlier post got me thinking: instead of just stating your income, why don't they have a spot for your FICO score on these dating sites? It would be a lot more meaningful, I think.
Joined: 4/12/2008
Msg: 18 (view)
Friends First, Then Intimate
Posted: 1/2/2010 12:21:53 AM
I had not thought of it like that

That was your response to another poster's suggestion that he might deserve a call back, which by his New Year's call
should have been two calls.

Why is it that many women ignore their own lack of common courtesy while reading into a man's behavior? If I was that guy, I would have KNOWN, not thought, that you weren't interested. You didn't say YOU were attentive or cooked dinner for him. You want all his effort expended on you, but won't even lift a finger to call him back. You're a princess, and he should run screaming.
Joined: 4/12/2008
Msg: 14 (view)
Signs he cares....
Posted: 1/1/2010 11:31:00 PM
All signs point to him wanting anal. Good luck to you.

Lil' Beaver Cleaver tjl2280 has me ROFL. I can't stop laughing at this!
Joined: 4/12/2008
Msg: 19 (view)
What is old fashioned dating, anyways?
Posted: 12/31/2009 1:19:32 PM
Ha ha! I liked Ron_mahogany's contribution back in '07:

Man asks woman for contact info
Man contacts woman
Man asks woman out for date
Man plans date
Man picks up woman for date
Man pays for date
Man takes woman home
Woman tells man "You are a great friend"

Rinse. Wash. Repeat.

Sounds like the poor guy has had a string of bad luck, but it's funny just the same.

I personally want a progressive woman that's up-to-date, not "selectively" old fashioned. That's a crock. It really means any number
or combination of the following, gleaned from my dating experiences: fear of rejection, fear of criticism, lack of creativity, lack of initiative, parsimony, resentment of men, competition with other women, or garden-variety entitlement.
Joined: 4/12/2008
Msg: 321 (view)
so what is it that men really want?????
Posted: 12/31/2009 3:36:50 AM
I want Stargaze34, but I'm too old to write her. She said everything a man wants to hear in her profile, and nothing he doesn't.

This is a four year old troll post, so it's amazing that it has legs going into 2010. I'll bite: a man wants a woman to appreciate him, and
to play fair. Some of us will never find such a woman. I haven't, but then I've only been dating 35 years. Ask someone in his 70's.
Joined: 4/12/2008
Msg: 5 (view)
Dating during the holidays?
Posted: 12/19/2009 8:54:45 PM
I guess some people are good with the online dating stats. I just know that it's a great time to flirt in the malls, or sneak in kisses under the mistletoe. I get proactive and routinely call single galpals to offer my services as office party escort, which they appreciate. Desperation smells the same any time of year, so it's fairly easy to avoid. And with attitudes that this is a poor time to date prevalent, the competition thins out as well. In short, it works for me.
Joined: 4/12/2008
Msg: 54 (view)
Broke it off b/c she wants to work at hooters or waitress at strip club?
Posted: 12/19/2009 7:28:29 PM
I am attracted to the "goodie two shoe" kind of girl.

Now you are. What about during your own admitted troubled past? Or the present, with that "intimate encounters"
- seeking tag that mysteriously got attached to your profile?

Why couldn't you have worked with her the way you aspire to work with at-risk teens, or would you give up on them
quickly as well? You both are only 21. Don't you think there's time left for her compass to swing your way?
Joined: 4/12/2008
Msg: 13 (view)
Friend or Boyfriend?
Posted: 12/9/2009 6:13:01 AM
Just be yourself. If you're a genuinely good guy, then live the part without compromise. Look at all this advice to make you play the games that the wrong women like. And it's all so one-sided. Put a few hot women in your so-called "Friend Zone" for a change. Let them come around and put themselves out there for you - these are modern times. Lack of confidence doesn't seem to be your bag, so hang in there and you'll find a worthy woman. Or channel your inner lounge-lizard jerk, put on too much after shave and some elevator shoes, and do the dance that everyone tells you to do - yer sure to land a fine woman that way.
Joined: 4/12/2008
Msg: 17 (view)
How to tell a woman to start paying for part of the date
Posted: 11/20/2009 12:38:43 AM

Maybe picking up the tab in the early stages of a relationship is just one of those instances where it sucks to be a guy.

Yes, mryln.

OP, you're already Gold Digger-sensitive, according to your profile, so Los Angeles is not going to rub you the right way. Women here have come to expect that a man will pay for everything, and will dismiss you as cheap if you propose an alternate financial arrangement. You can't win, so suck it up and pay, or stop going out with women here. The best advice was from the guy that suggested her attitudes toward money were a good way to tell if she's partner material.

Some of my personal anecdotes:
I've been in relationships with several high net-worth women here, and not one volunteered to pay for anything while we were together.

This year, a friend (not a date) invited me out for my birthday, and then she allowed me to pay when I half-heartedly offered. Afterwards, we went by a market where she proceeded to purchase two bottles of their most expensive wine - for herself.

A few years ago my then girlfriend was getting serious, and booked us on a flight back east to visit her mom. I paid for it, expecting that she'd at least cover her ticket. When I asked, she said "In travel, the man always pays".

. . . and I've got a zillion more. Los Angeles women will give you every excuse under the sun as to why they won't help shoulder the load, but I believe the truth lies in their criticism of "cheap" men - they're simply projecting.
Joined: 4/12/2008
Msg: 7 (view)
Nice guys
Posted: 11/6/2009 8:31:39 PM
All right, this post is probably miscategorized, but no one flagged it. This is very well expressed, and should be mandatory reading for women, many of whom seem wholly ignorant of the nice guy's plight. I suffered from this in my twenties and into my thirties, and lived to regret it. I always felt that that noble existence would have its reward, but it never came. I can offer advice, and that is to channel your inner jerk right now, before you grow more and more disillusioned with women and become chapped and bitter. Like it or not, desirable women often seem to be attracted to the tools of the world, so you need to fake being one to get your self esteem back on track. It's just ridiculous that I'm even suggesting this, but it works. Give 'em what they want, and let some other schlep play nice guy.
Joined: 4/12/2008
Msg: 24 (view)
Why worry about when to enjoy sex?
Posted: 11/2/2009 9:26:29 PM
OP, your syntax and diction suggest that English is not your native language, and your spelling could stand some work. Please consider having someone else review your posts for clarity. I drew the short straw for the Grammar Cop role on this post.

"Early" sex? You realize this phrase is unknown to men. Women even have their own language about this subject, so it must be a huge issue to many of them. Apparently not with the women I currently date, but your mileage may vary.

Last I checked, sex was a natural thing, like eating. I'm going on my third POF date in two years, 'cause I finally found one trim woman here that will admit she likes to eat, a natural fact denied by so many others. Men are up front about liking food and sex, while many women often appear not to be. Now why is that? Try to tell me that denying these obvious facts doesn't mess with your head over time, and feed your paranoia that "they" are passing judgment on you. Aren't we living in a so-called "liberated" society?

Women that notably enjoy sex certainly get called names by the men with whom I associate. I've heard everything from" likable" and "approachable" to "friendly" and "popular". The list goes on, but the tags are universally positive. I've never heard disparaging remarks from these men regarding women with healthy and expressive libidos. Now if you ask me about the ones that deny their natural urges by design, I suppose I've heard a few off-color remarks from these guys. And unfaithful types are in a whole 'nuther category.

This subject hits home with me, as I came to POF over it. I waited months before being "natural" with my ex, and had fallen in love with her in the meantime. I was soon to discover that she was allergic to intimacy of any type, and so began a noble yet tortuous four year odyssey that left my libido in shambles, my brain sprained and my heart broken into a thousand stinging shards. Had we tried to knock boots the first date, I would have discovered the anomaly and run, as many men do when the sex is bad. My heart would have thanked me later. To me, "early sex" now has great value, and I've learned not to toy with Mother Nature ever again, if my date is of the same mind.
Joined: 4/12/2008
Msg: 94 (view)
I Want Someone Like ME- is it too much to ask?
Posted: 11/2/2009 8:02:51 PM
People have children because they ARE selfish - the selflessness comes later, but the decision to have children is all about YOU and what YOU want at that time.

All right, Wild Heart, I'll give you props for turning this around to the truth. The exception are those who adopt. I'd like to be rich enough some day to throw them all a party.

Stop comparing YOUR laundry list to the OP's, folks. He wants a very understandable and reasonable basis from which to work in a mate, and that's his choice. Personally, I look for a pulse as being my bare minimum in a date, but that's me. Let him get hooked up with his over-achieving counterpart so that their progeny can rule the world eventually - sheesh.
Joined: 4/12/2008
Msg: 30 (view)
Can someone explain y so many women on dating sites require events/things to be happy?
Posted: 11/2/2009 7:28:55 PM
OP, you're probably on the right path for you. Being creative, you should have the wherewithal to come up with dazzling date ideas, but you choose not to go over the top, as I did during my twenties and thirties. I can tell you from experience that the planning, creativity, effort and expense are largely lost on women. I routinely received lukewarm responses, and many simply forgot to thank me. The phenomenon led me to believe that my dates must have had a line of suitors waiting to do back flips just to spend time with them, so I'd soon lose interest. Women don't typically court, entertain or romance a guy - that's a one-way street that we must drive if we wish to get anywhere with females. Being under-appreciated is a way of life for many men, and date burnout is usually the result. Unfortunately for you, there is no magic potion for "instant" familiarity, in which you hope to find comfort. Familiarity can breed contempt, so be pleased if you must invest time to discover all the unfolding petals of your rose.
Joined: 4/12/2008
Msg: 25 (view)
any truth left in the way to a mans heart is through his stomach
Posted: 10/24/2009 10:12:19 PM

I bet if you ask most men what he's willing to give up with his wife either (1) sex or (2) home cooked meal - he's give up the home cooked meal.

Total BS. My last gf didn't cook or like sex. Boinking can be hit or miss, whereas food always delivers.

I just saw a woman holding up food in her profile pic and I just about lost it. Why more women haven't figured this one out is beyond me. I'd personally like to see fewer boob shots and more of a woman offering grub and grog. Now there's a promise of a fulfilling encounter.
Joined: 4/12/2008
Msg: 18 (view)
You're 'not ready for a relationship'? What does that mean?
Posted: 10/22/2009 1:16:31 PM
Well, according to most women my age, it's because I don't have a failed marriage or three under my belt.
Joined: 4/12/2008
Msg: 138 (view)
Why Is It Women Don't Seem To Know How To ROMANCE A Man?
Posted: 10/22/2009 1:09:21 PM
Wow . . .thiguy said it like I've experienced it, and he lives 3000 miles from me. It looks like it's not just a local phenomenon . . .

Sprainedheart (great handle, btw), you are one in a thousand. Please don't change, and talk up your exploits with your most gossipy friends. The word needs to be spread on this subject.
Joined: 4/12/2008
Msg: 210 (view)
That's WHY It's Called Sex Appeal
Posted: 10/17/2009 11:02:51 PM

Truth is, most men judgel harshly a woman who gives it up before dessert is served

Whose truth is that? Why do attitudes like this even see the light of day in 2009?

OP, that guy you describe doesn't seem to be blessed with common sense. If he truly values and respects this woman's need to give him blue balls, he should just whip out the black book after every date and get a booty call happening.
Joined: 4/12/2008
Msg: 41 (view)
the odds of POF... STACKED for ladies, discouraging for men
Posted: 10/16/2009 1:21:07 PM
The OP is right, although like many that have taken part in this thread, he makes many generalizations. It's kinda fun watching the fireworks . . .

I came here for the forums. In two years, I've dated two women from POF. The last one couldn't get one detail right about me - she seemed to confuse me with one or more of the many men she corresponds with or dates. Her inbox runneth over, apparently.

From conversations with women, and threads like these, it appears that quality is lacking in most of their responses. You would think, though, that when a quality man did respond, they'd do what they could to keep him interested. The threads I've read would suggest
otherwise, if we are to believe that the complainers are indeed men of quality.
Joined: 4/12/2008
Msg: 12 (view)
is this just a womans thing or men do it also?
Posted: 10/14/2009 8:29:39 PM
Didn't you just lift this from the Greg and Marcia kissing scene in "A Very Brady Sequel"?
Joined: 4/12/2008
Msg: 27 (view)
Should you still see someone even if they lied to you on the 1st date?
Posted: 10/12/2009 10:16:31 PM
OP, think about the other men she could hoodwink in the future, and do the right thing. If you simply stop seeing her, she'll just keep living that honest life of hers. You should channel your inner player and mess with her. Make promises you don't keep, double book dates (that's why she was late and the sitter was calling - she'd been gone all afternoon with other guys), and misrepresent everything about yourself. Tell her you're in love with her by the third date. You can end it by standing her up on a school night - that oughta put a bee in her bonnet, and make her think twice about pulling someone's chain in the future.

Snarfblatt had it right - if you're gonna lie (and according to this thread, everyone does), at least make it convincing, and employ sufficient common sense so that your deception isn't easily discovered, unless that's your desire. Plenty of my liberal friends defended Bill Clinton's indiscretions, claiming that "lots" of politicians have had dalliances, so he shouldn't have been the object of so much criticism. That wasn't the point, I would correct them. He's just a bad liar, and not good at even setting himself up well. Think about just one of his trysts - Monica had to be signed in at the White House to come see him. That's poor judgment for anyone, and especially for the supposed leader of the free world, who might have found himself in a high stakes (read: nuclear) poker game and not have been able to bluff effectively.
Joined: 4/12/2008
Msg: 22 (view)
What Are the Fundamental Tools of Building Emotional and Mental Intimacy?
Posted: 10/6/2009 9:46:05 PM
briargate, rune3 and IgorFrankensteen said it all for me already, so I'll just offer that the meat of this thread is why I came to POF in the first place. My SO avoided all forms of intimacy, which eventually tore us apart. I came here for answers, and found some - thanks.

A thought: do you suppose the divorce rate would decline a bit if a course on this subject were required to obtain a marriage license?
Joined: 4/12/2008
Msg: 85 (view)
I Want Someone Like ME- is it too much to ask?
Posted: 9/25/2009 1:32:23 AM
This is a good old-fashioned flame fest, just 'cause someone dared to ask, "Please sir, can I have some more?" Give him a break, if he's even still on this site. The dude lives in Fresberg, where women probably get married and have kids a little earlier than in the big city. The guy wants only what he has to offer, so if he's "setting the bar high" you're actually paying him a high compliment. Cabrandon, you need to get your rear down here to Los Angeles. Keep me stocked with quality Mexican barley pop, and I'll let you have my cast-offs. Most of them are right there in your target zone or beyond, 'cause I'm a picky **stard like you, although it sounds like I get out a lot more.

First of all, you're a nerd, unless you haven't discovered the fact. Luckily, many of these women go for your type. Down here we've got yer basic actress/model/dancer/singer types, and some have graduate degrees in Theater, Film or Schmoozing. These women stay single in hopes of marrying a rich producer/director/scam artist one day, they rarely have kids, are in great shape, look dynamite, but their profession has plenty of ups and downs. Hey, five out of six ain't bad. I've got fresh numbers if you want 'em.

Going back in time, I used to be in academia. Here's where geeks such as yourself will clean up in short order. Now I don't know what your particular discipline is, but your social life here depends on it. Stay away from Communications, Theater, Film, Economics, Mathematics, and most of the hard sciences, unless you've got a gay streak. Male professors are in the majority there. Aim for the other Arts, Languages, Classics, Music, English and most of the remaining liberal arts/humanities majors. You'll find thin spinsters, er, unmarried degreed women without children galore, some with tenure, although most are average looking. Again, we're still battin' .800+ here, so give me some credit. I dated a few of these, but most had more leg hair than I do, and more than a few made Castro look conservative. Hey, you didn't mention hygiene or politics, guy. I'll direct you to their textbook signings. Even if you have zero social skills, you'll seem interesting by comparison.

Even further back, I worked for the gubment at an installation known for it's contributions to the space program. You want unmarried, in shape, no kids, average to slightly above average looks, advanced degrees and a secure profession? Back then it was Aerospace, baby. And these chicks had security clearances to boot. Today, they're about ready to retire the Space Shuttle, so it's anyone's guess if the level of funding will attract more space-babes to this job market. I can tell you that L.A. has orders of magnitude more aerospace firms than you do up there, so if they do show up, it'll be down here. I've dated my share of these female Carl Sagan-types. All I can say is "Far out." Their phone numbers may be classified now.

So don't compromise, or whine - just relocate. Luckily for you, I now sell real estate, so of course I'll be able to sell you a nice place smack dab between a few universities, movie studios and aerospace firms. We'll have you hookin' up with appropriate females in no time. Now just sign this here sales contract . . .
Joined: 4/12/2008
Msg: 29 (view)
At what age do you Just Give Up?
Posted: 9/24/2009 12:09:42 AM
This is just a great thread with wildly entertaining posts. I stumbled upon it and had to read every entry. So many folks with interesting stories to tell, and many with kinda sad outlooks. Every person's life is like a film with a unique plot. Those that choose to "give up" in the fulfillment department might as well turn off the projector. As has been pointed out here repeatedly, you are fine alone, if that's where life finds you presently. Strive to be happy, and even spread a little joy every day. You have one time around, so make the best of it. Happy people attract others, so when you least expect it, a love interest may pop into your life. Be ready for them by being content within yourself, and open to being completed by someone. Zero in on what makes you most happy, then center your activities and interests around those things. Others following a similar path are bound to cross yours, and magic could happen. The glass actually is half full, so drink up and toast your new beginning.
Joined: 4/12/2008
Msg: 4 (view)
Why would he start out trying to talk dirty
Posted: 9/22/2009 10:55:02 PM
This guy didn't talk dirty to you. Women on here are encouraging you with their automatic man-hater vibe. They'll even step into "Ask A Guy" so that they ensure that their attitude is conveyed to men, just to scr*w with them.

You're 47, divorced and a mother. Where are your life experiences? Did you never actually talk dirty to your former husband on the phone? Spending time in church still doesn't make what this guy said dirty (unless he was a lot worse and you're too shy to share the real dirt). You could have been a $10 bet that he was winning until you didn't play ball - who knows what his motivation was. What's yours? How will you handle it if it happens with another man?
Joined: 4/12/2008
Msg: 13 (view)
Does this mean anything or was it just chat?
Posted: 9/22/2009 10:32:29 PM
Yep, NerdStatus and IsThatLegal pretty much covered it. I'd suggest that with a divorce rate of over 60% that the "rules" need to be rewritten as far as banter about your ex. Particularly for men, who demonstrably take break-ups worse than women and statistically are twice as likely to commit suicide over a divorce. Allowing him to blow off a little steam might be a better gift than you know. And yeah, you could have helped the guy out by giving him a sign or some encouragement - it sounds like he was interested in you.
Joined: 4/12/2008
Msg: 22 (view)
Unethical foods?
Posted: 8/10/2009 11:09:06 AM
Why are baby sheep consumed in lieu of grown animals, and yet no one seems to be up in arms about that? It's a matter of
taste, apparently, as mutton is too "gamey", but does that make it right? Perhaps if lambs were kept in mobility-limited
enclosures like veal on the hoof we'd see some concern.
Joined: 4/12/2008
Msg: 2 (view)
The best turkey sandwich
Posted: 8/4/2009 11:19:04 PM
That sounds like it would be my favorite, and it also sounds healthy. Turkey was the only meat to make the "Top ten cancer fighting foods" list from the AMA some 15 years ago. Avocado has the most vitamins & minerals of any fruit, and it's loaded with "healthy" fats.

So do you make the chipotle mayo, or buy it? If you make it, do you roast your own peppers and make the mayo from eggs and oil, or?
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