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 Author Thread: Now Taking Applications for the End of the World
 hurricane hanna
Joined: 9/4/2008
Msg: 10 (view)
Now Taking Applications for the End of the World
Posted: 1/13/2013 1:53:54 PM
The guy who dreamed up the James Holmes conspiracy averages about two conspiracies every 48 hours. I think that he should be working on the next big end of the world conspiracy right now.
 hurricane hanna
Joined: 9/4/2008
Msg: 40 (view)
What’s the reasoning of sacrificing -- to the God / gods..
Posted: 5/18/2009 3:58:42 PM
You were there?
 hurricane hanna
Joined: 9/4/2008
Msg: 61 (view)
Can Marriage Survive Infidelity?
Posted: 5/17/2009 5:35:53 PM
"Can a marriage survive infidelity?"

Sure, if the man is the one having the affair,
 hurricane hanna
Joined: 9/4/2008
Msg: 21 (view)
Can you really tell in 20 mins?
Posted: 5/17/2009 5:32:59 PM
I get a very strong feeling about a person on first meeting, and usually, my first impression is correct. Sometimes I get fooled, but usually, the impression is pretty similar to what friends, relatives or acquaintances tell me later. I usually get a sense of how honest and open a person is, how intelligent and how compassionate. A shy person's kindness might not be obvious immediately, but there is a sort of interest, warmth, curiosity that even the shyest man has.

I get a feeling about whether I am intrigued with someone right away. I don't divide 'intrigued' into 'physical' and 'other'. Intrigued, for me, is just intrigued. I can't imagine being physically attracted to someone who isn't also intellectually and spiritually intriguing, anyway.
 hurricane hanna
Joined: 9/4/2008
Msg: 17 (view)
Burn baby burn!
Posted: 5/16/2009 9:44:51 AM
Oh yes it can be both physical and mental and spiritual and all the other stuff too, and not an infatuation - chemistry can either be on an animal level or something far deeper. Not too often in a lifetime though!
 hurricane hanna
Joined: 9/4/2008
Msg: 35 (view)
Where are my Glam Rockers?
Posted: 5/12/2009 7:45:18 PM
'where are all the glam rockers'

in jail in Thailand...
 hurricane hanna
Joined: 9/4/2008
Msg: 60 (view)
Did use of psychadelic drugs spark long-term benefits to your mind, thinking and logic?
Posted: 5/12/2009 4:45:42 PM
I can't really convince myself that it's actually beneficial, except when I'm high.
 hurricane hanna
Joined: 9/4/2008
Msg: 73 (view)
Can you be too independent for a relationship?
Posted: 5/12/2009 4:40:38 PM
I don't think it's called 'independent'.
 hurricane hanna
Joined: 9/4/2008
Msg: 16 (view)
Who is the worlds best thinking expert ?
Posted: 5/12/2009 3:47:01 AM
about names of great thinkers being misspelled:

you misspelled this one: Rabindranah Tagore

Rabindranath Tagore. Also called Rabi Thakur. Rabindranath Tagore was an interesting character, but I am not sure he was in the category you put him in.

I really don't think there is any one author someone can read to expand one's mind or ability to think. I believe the best way to do that is to read a lot of different authors.

I don't think philosophical writings really teach people that much, or broaden their minds that much, or increase their ability to analyze things. I think people read philosophical writing and twist it around to mean what they want. I think reading philosophers acquaints one with the kind of questions philosophers wrote about, and little more.

I think living actively, fully and with a questioning, curious mind and attempting to solve problems one finds difficult to impossible, is a far better way to expand one's thinking powers.

I haven't actually found anyone who has read extensively in philosophy, and learned to be analytical from doing so, either. That's a very different kind of thing from developing one's power to analyze, again, I think that comes from exercises that force one to be analytical, like solving problems, designing things.

Too, most 'popular' philosophers were white, male and from a handful of Western European countries, during a very, very short period of time. I don't find that to be a good representation of the world's or history's knowledge.

Being able to quote writings, having a rich vocabulary is good, but getting down in the dirt and solving a problem is another thing entirely.

I think the 'greatest thinker' I ever met was a man who couldn't write his own name or read a book. He lived in the poorest county in Michigan, with a commonlaw wife, in an old trailer. I seriously doubt either of them knew who a single philosopher was or what he wrote.

He fixed things. He was the kindest person I ever met, and he spent much of his time fixing things for others who did not know how to fix them. He had an uncanny ability to look at things, figure out how they worked, and repair them. He got along well with his partner, and kept his home clean and neat. We sponsored a bike ride to the upper part of Michigan and he and his partner came along and helped keep the kid's bikes repaired. They also for months before the ride, took discarded bikes out of the trash, fixed them up, and gave them to kids, so the kids could prepare for the ride.

Most of the kids had no more than one shirt, one pair of shoes, and many of them didn't have a place to live. A couple of the kids slept on a couch at a relative's and some of them traveled around with a single parent working on farms.

This guy encouraged them to stay in school whenever they could, and to surmount any obstacle to get them on that ride in northern Michigan.

He was an inspiration to his partner and to all the kids around.

And he was the 'greatest thinker' I ever met.
 hurricane hanna
Joined: 9/4/2008
Msg: 38 (view)
Somebody Normal
Posted: 5/10/2009 4:02:42 PM
I think if the original poster feels he can't find anyone who isn't...
"a spaz isn't insane or completely too into themselves"
...that something isn't working right, because there are a lot of people out there who aren't a 'spaz', 'insane', or 'completely into themselves'.

I'm not sure what 'spaz' means. Acting in a way you don't like? Too changeable? Moody?

What is 'insane'? Gets angry suddenly, storms out? Yells at you and then suddenly acts pleasant?

'Completely into themselves'?

Not into you?
 hurricane hanna
Joined: 9/4/2008
Msg: 39 (view)
Difference in IQ - your experiences?
Posted: 5/10/2009 3:58:35 PM
The person who he is the smarter one in the couple isn't always the smarter one in the couple.
 hurricane hanna
Joined: 9/4/2008
Msg: 8 (view)
Difference in IQ - your experiences?
Posted: 5/10/2009 8:35:46 AM
It depends on the persons involved. I tend to think that if a person is wondering about it, they're not going to be able to cope with a difference. The people who are able to do this, the difference tends to not even occur to them.

For some people there is a big divide, and they ridicule people who aren't like them. There is 'downward' as well as 'upward' snobbism, and you're just as likely to hear a person who is considered less educated or less able to jump into a complex subject put down, as you are to hear an educated person with a complicated vocabulary, put down or ridiculed.

A gal I know of is a professor at a top class university, tenured, top rank, extensively published, brilliant, and an expert in Eastern Philosophy, an expert on several 'dead' languages and she can go toe to toe with just about anyone with a doctorate on any subject. She's absolutely brilliant.

Her husband is a sherpa from Tibet. He cleans bathrooms for a living. He likes more than anything, to eat a good meal, to sit on the porch and watch the people passing by on the street, while smoking a traditional 'beedee' (a tiny little natural tobacco thing). He doesn't have a whole lot to say about dead languages, or philosophical discussions. He isn't concerned about his wife debating on the latest topic of the day, and he isn't impressed or unimpressed about her job. He says, 'she's a good woman'.

They love each other. They've been together for years and are quite content with each other.

Some people can do that, and some people can't. To be honest, most people can't. Their friends may stir up trouble, their parents may, even their co-workers might.

As the old saying goes, a bird and a fish can fall in love, but where will they build their home?

People who are similar in interests, education, background, even earning power, tend to have an easier time getting along.

But what really is important is values. If a person has deeper qualities in common with another person, the interests, sports, music they like, how exactly they talk, what kind of education they've becomes less and less important.
 hurricane hanna
Joined: 9/4/2008
Msg: 45 (view)
Dating someone slightly developmentally disabled
Posted: 5/10/2009 4:51:43 AM
"Unless they tell you, how do you know?"

I think most people can tell if someone has an intellectual disability, and needs more time to work things out or understand what's happening. One might not know the exact name of the disability or exactly how it affects the person in detail, but one can usually tell.

Keeping in mind that the vast majority of people who have 'disabilities' function in a very normal range and do normal things, with very few limitations, make their own decisions, live as full adults.

I think it's best to let the person tell you when they feel is the right time, and in the way they want to. There is no reason to tell you a lot of detail unless they feel the relationship might become more involved.

'Developmental disability' is basically a medical condition. If I'm just going out for a sandwhich with someone I don't give them my medical history.

I'd also like to mention that while most people have mild disabilities only and make their own decisions about friends and relationships, if the person is so severely disabled intellectually that they can't evaluate whether a person intends to harm or hurt them, and are just friendly to anyone without fully understanding the difficulties of that, there is very often going to be a guardian or guardian-like person in their life who is going to try to look out for their best interests. If that is the case, anyone really owes it to the guardian to respect the care and caution the guardian has for looking out for the person.
 hurricane hanna
Joined: 9/4/2008
Msg: 44 (view)
Dating someone slightly developmentally disabled
Posted: 5/7/2009 6:15:55 PM
"If your son is very successful in some areas and having great difficulty in others, this indicates something more along the lines of a learning disability, or a communication disorder."

Not really. That's pretty typical of most people with mental retardation (developmental disability, a newer term, is meant to indicate that the cause is likely in how the brain developed, 'mental retardation' just reflected how a person did on an IQ or similar test, but that's all 'developmental disability' really means too).

Most people with 'mental retardation' or whatever one wants to call it, have things they can do easily and things that are hard for them to do.

'Mental retardation' refers only to how someone scores on a single test or a set of similar tests, not to what cognitive, etc disorders they have, which are tested and diagnosed separately.

Most people's abilities, in fact, are quite uneven - even normal people.

'Mental retardation' goes on one 'axis' of diagnosis...other issues go on other 'axes' of the diagnosis, there's a total of 4 axes.

Degree of mental retardation is given categories that have varied over time, but the ranges given to each category haven't changed very much over time, despite lots of fussing over nomenclature.

As one of my 'mentally retarded' friends said, 'I'm slow, not stupid, ya know'. There is a difference. How a person scores on a test and what 'category' their score falls under isn't the entire measure of a person.
 hurricane hanna
Joined: 9/4/2008
Msg: 40 (view)
Dating someone slightly developmentally disabled
Posted: 5/7/2009 3:39:21 PM
That is for sure TXWheels.

If a person has a disability, it isn't necessarily like 'taking advantage of them' to be involved with them. A person with a disability, even if they are quite handicapped intellectually, once they are of legal age, they have the same right as anyone else to have sex and relationships.

It would just be hoped that anyone who got involved with a person who had diminished capacity, that they didn't take advantage of them, lie to them, be unconcerned about them getting a sexually transmitted disease or hurting their feelings.

Messing with someone's underage child - well - generally, parents of young people with disabilities tend to be about looking out for them, and getting involved with an underage disabled person is a good way to get in a whole world of hurt.

As far as would I date a person with an intellectual limitation, of course I would. Sure a lot better than dating someone who calls people names like 'retard'.

A man I know actually tried, at least, to date a woman who was more than moderately retarded. She had her own apartment, had a job, was active in her church, and had a very rich, full and very adult life. She kept in touch with relatives and had a good many friends in the world. I got to meet this lady a half dozen times and she was wonderful to talk to.

She always seemed to remember how people felt. My old cat had just died the first day I met her, and the next time I saw her, she looked at me for a little while, thought hard, and said, 'You're the lady who loves animals'. She actually was wonderful to talk to. She had a great memory for things that had happened in her family and was actually rather sought after for parties and get-togethers. She rarely spent an evening at home.

Her family had discussed relationships with her well before she reached her 18th birthday, and she told my friend very plainly and clearly that she was not at all interested in having intimacy with a guy who 'doesn't care about me'. She also proceeded to tell him how she KNEW he didn't really care about her. 'When I talk your face looks like you don't like how I talk'. She told him, 'I want a guy who loves ME for ME'. And that was the last time he saw her.

I had a friend who was actually quite disabled mentally. In fact, he was profoundly retarded, and autistic. He could not write more than his name, and he could barely read a few words. Yet he was one of the most loved people I have ever known. Two thousand people came to his funeral, and people stood there and sobbed their eyes out - men, women, kids, everyone loved Jon. He was one of most incredible people I ever met in my entire life. He inspired love in others and inspired people to be their best. The time I spent with him was some of the best time in my entire life.

People are kidding themselves if they think every single mentally disabled person is 'childlike' and 'naive' and 'stupid'. Many of them have been very carefully educated by their parents, teachers and those who love them, and many of them have a pretty damn sharp understanding of the world and the people in it.

I'm sure the people calling people 'retards' realize full well how rude that is, and how nasty it is to call people names. They just like to think they are better than everyone else.

There are all sorts of disabilites that can affect the brain. One disability that is really sad, is the inability to have respect for others, or to have a feeling of understanding for those who are different.

People who suffer from this sort of sad and very limiting disability miss out a lot in life, and the sad truth is that their brain never finished maturing into the adult form of brain, and that's why they talk like that.

In most cases, people who are 'mentally retarded' or 'developmentally disabled' are just not as quick at learning things as average. It might take them more time to do something or to learn a new skill. There isn't any 'typical type of person' and there is no 'typical type of problem' such people have. Everyone is different and an individual. Some people have problems doing one thing, other people have problems doing other things.

Disabilities can just be how the person is born, or can be acquired. Friend of mine was in a car accident and got a Traumatic Brain Injury, now has difficulty remembering, planning and evaluating information he gets, but on the other hand, he still can recall phone numbers, addresses, and historical facts, and everything that happened with all his family members and friends over the years.

Relationships and loving people is not always about someone who is 'perfect', or looks like a model, or would make your girlfriends go 'ooh!' Sometimes people's feelings are based on very, very superficial traits or attributes of a person. Sometimes there is a lot more to a person than those things.

 hurricane hanna
Joined: 9/4/2008
Msg: 20 (view)
need some advise on what went wrong.
Posted: 3/11/2009 2:47:23 PM
I think that a lot of times, women are lonely after a relationship, and they might get involved with someone who

a. They wouldn't usually get involved with, the person may have a different style or different interests than them.

b. Get involved quickly, when they actually need more time, and then have regrets.

I had the experience once where I broke up with a man and quickly got involved with someone else. If I had given it more time, and gotten to know the new person slower, I think it would have worked out far, far better.

I have a suggestion. Ask her what she would like to have different. Ask her if she feels you and she should give it another try. Ask her flat out if right now, she would rather be alone or be with someone else. Ask in a kind, non challenging way. Ask by showing an interest in being honest and open rather than, 'Alright, 'let's have it out right here and now, once and for all'. Try, 'I've really been thinking a lot about you. Can we have a talk about some things that have really been on my mind?'

If she has no interest in trying again with you, you might ask, 'What do you feel I should have done differently. If you had it to do over again, what would you change?' Don't ask challengingly, just, 'I wonder if you could tell me'.

You may seem a lot less boring all of a sudden when you listen closely to her, and show you really care about how she feels. It's really important to listen - turn off the tv, look at her, watch her facial expression, sit and lean toward her, with your hands clasped - men often have 'I'm not listening' body language when they don't even realize it.

When I have felt most bored with someone, is when I have not felt that man would talk to me, and share his thoughts and listen to me. Men often like to talk about movies, TV and politics, yet women like to talk about different thngs than men do, quite often, and they get their feelings hurt when they can see the man is sort of bored and looking out the window when they talk, and getting all lit when one of their pals talks about a movie or fishing. Women often have an easier time talking about feelings and really enjoy talking about how they feel, how they decided to do something, what thoughts they went through as they worked something out....etc.

I think it's really important to try and show an interest.

'Being bored' is often very often about doing the same thing over and over. It might be the same restaurant, the same style in bed. 'Where would YOU like to go tonight? How about something new?' or 'I'd like to do something really special for you tonight', or, just out of the blue, instead of the same old thing, how about doing something in the community, something really different? Spending a day working for Habitat for Humanity, or working together at the Humane Society? What sort of things do you like to do that you never get to? What about her? What special interests does she have that she never gets to follow? What one thing would you NEVER consider doing? DO it! Think about what she's interested in...what would be a real treat?

If she's working long hours every day, the little things can make a big difference. A boquet of flowers at the office might be a nice surprise, and so might be a very special evening, with a nice dinner and a backrub when she's tired.

How about being 'the dominant' one? That's difficult. Every woman means something different by saying, 'the man should be dominant'. To some women, it means the SM thing. To others, it means the man is there when times are tough or during a crisis, and just knows what to do. 'Your car is broken down on the highway? Babe, sit down, take a deep breath, I'll call Triple A, and I'll come over to wait with you - and bring you a super giant latte, how's that sound?' To others, it just means, 'DON'T SAY 'I DON'T KNOW, WHATEVER' !!!!!' With this kind of lady, when she asks you to make a choice, make a definite one.
 hurricane hanna
Joined: 9/4/2008
Msg: 35 (view)
Posted: 3/4/2009 7:36:18 PM
The word 'sacrifice' means 'to make sacred'.

The worshipper as well as the object of sacrifice was transformed. Sacrifices were part of the oldest religions.
 hurricane hanna
Joined: 9/4/2008
Msg: 10 (view)
Abuse, waring signs from a different angle
Posted: 3/1/2009 1:23:43 PM
Insert favorite myth in this sentence: " <favorite myth> aren't vulnerable to abuse"

As in:

''Intelligent people aren't vulnerable to abuse"

"Successful people aren't vulnerable to abuse"

"Happy people aren't vulnerable to abuse"

All myths.
 hurricane hanna
Joined: 9/4/2008
Msg: 79 (view)
Would you enter into a relationship with a person in Recovery?
Posted: 3/1/2009 11:04:05 AM
He may be required to go. If he got in legal trouble that may be a condition of his probation or avoiding jail time.
 hurricane hanna
Joined: 9/4/2008
Msg: 128 (view)
she has been diagnosed with bipolarism
Posted: 2/28/2009 6:40:50 PM
At my college house, the guy with bipolar disorder was extremely popular, he'd sometimes stay up cleaning for days. When he was hospitalized one of the guys in the house said, 'This place is going to go to rack and ruin now'.
 hurricane hanna
Joined: 9/4/2008
Msg: 7 (view)
Abuse, waring signs from a different angle
Posted: 2/28/2009 5:30:49 PM
Unfortunately 'being around abuse' doesn't guarantee someone will abuse, and not being around it is no guarantee they won't abuse.

A good indication of a person who will not become abusive is seeing a person who early on in the relationship, doesn't show a lot of judgementalness and rigidity of behavior.

I think a lot of abusive men seem 'too good to be true' at the start. Very clever manipulative abuser types tend to know just what to say, and it comes out very quickly and easily, like a very well prepared political speech. Everyone has flaws and makes mistakes. If the picture seems too good to be true, it probably is.

I look at men especially carefully for how they treat their family members, children and pets. I hate to say it, but I am also interested in how they treat any ex girlfriends or ex wives. I don't like to hear about the 'ungrateful ugly nasty cold bitch' and how they got even with her. I like to hear something like 'Well, we just didn't get along. We both made a lot of mistakes and it just got to a point where we couldn't mend fences'. In most failed relationships, both people bear an equal share of the responsibility when it fails. An abuser often explains every problem by explaining how it's someone else's fault.

I am interested too in how they treat their neighbors and how they get along with people at their work. If they get into fights frequently and don't seem to get along with anyone, I don't assume their relationship with me will be any different.

I look for how a man relates to me. If they have not betrayed themselves in how they react to relatives or friends (that's actually quite rare, to be honest), I look for a natural situation in which I can see how they react to frustration, and I watch very carefully how they react. I want to see that they say something like, 'I'm sorry to hear that, maybe we can do something else that weekend', or 'Oh, I'm sorry to hear that, how come? Can we talk about it?'

What I DON'T want to see is a furious response or something deprecating or minimizing what I need to do.

Abusers don't care about how you feel. They make a pretense of 'getting to know you', but it's just that - a pretense. They care much more about getting you to do what they want than with how you feel. You will feel a lot of pressure - to do specific things, usually early into the relationship.

Abusers tend to be highly judgemental, rigid in their expectations, and set up a lot of strict rules and requirements.

There are other types of abusers. Some are abusive during substance abuse, and full of sweet words and apologies later. Some are 'quiet abusers', who seem quite cooperative and relaxed most of the time, but occasionally 'fly off the handle' and explode, without anything seeming to set them off.

Most abusers make very, very obvious comments and jokes that make it very clear that they are abusers. Aside from 'black humor' that is common among young people, when the more outrageous a statement is the funnier it is, jokes and asides about how they 'showed him what for' or 'gave her what she deserved' can be considered danger signals.

After 'the honeymoon (that deceptive period in the relationship where the person is trying hard to make a positive impression) is over' and the 'good behavior' part of the relationship is over, people relax, and start being more themselves. If you don't see a big change in their behavior after the 'honeymoon', it's a good sign.

I think the most consistent thing, even among different types of abusers, is 'unrealistic expectations'. They expect people and even animals to do things that are just not reasonable.

Another thing to look for is contrasts that do not make sense.

For example, I dated a guy who was abusive toward his dogs (when I cottoned onto this I was out the door). He had no property fence, and after his dogs were shut up in a dark, small shed all day, when he came home, he let them out and then expected them to wait on the porch for him while he ate his dinner, which would generally take several hours. If they went off the porch, he would beat the everloving snot out of them, all the time with a very quiet, calm look on his face. The dogs would be so badly beaten the two of them couldn't walk the next day.

The guy was a Buddhist and practiced yoga. He talked in a very quiet, sincere voice and used terms from all the latest 'pop psychology' that you could read in 'Shambhala Sun' and other new age journals. He made comments like 'my spiritual journey is the most important thing to me', and then he'd put down the Yoga Journal, and go out on the front sidewalk, grab his dog's collar and very quietly and calmly beat the everloving shit out of the dog.

Once we went to a 'yoga weekend'. One of the things the teacher did was have us breathe deeply, relax and think about something nice. Just a couple of people started moving and making kind of a pretty dance gesture with our hands. It was really fun, actually. I was one of the people who started to gesture like that. I guess some people do that during that exercise. The teacher came over and said, 'you were really dancing around'. I grinned and said, 'wow that's really funny!'

And when we got into the car to drive home, I realized, that man was like a powder keg with a loose cork. He was furious, because he had not danced around. I had, the teacher had complemented me, he hadn't had that happen, he was absolutely furious.

ANOTHER really strange thing he did was he helped me build a bookshelf. I had a project to do for the house I lived in, and he offered to help.

We picked up the materials and the building was going along quietly without incident. When we started cutting the backing for the bookshelf, it became obvious that the saw horses we had wouldn't support the material, it was a little too thin and floppy. I suggested we try a different approach and see if the material could be scored on one side with a box cutter, and then broken with a straight edge.

Now this GUY....this guy stood there, with a very calm, quiet look on his face, and started throwing his skill saw on the concrete floor in the workshop.

Over and over and over and over.

I left the garage.

And a half an hour later, he was still out there, quietly throwing the skill saw on the floor, bending it down, picking it up, and throwing it on the floor again.

That should be enough evidence for anyone. I can see a fellow throwing a wrench down and saying, 'Damn! Ow!' but what he did...all those things, done so calmly and quietly, run, girl, run.
 hurricane hanna
Joined: 9/4/2008
Msg: 127 (view)
she has been diagnosed with bipolarism
Posted: 2/28/2009 5:17:09 PM
I've heard quite a few people with bipolar disorder say that their fragile systems reacted incredibly to hormonal changes, fatigue, improper diet, anxiety. BOY you gotta take good care of yourself if you have bipolar disorder! Having a schedule helps.

I had the funniest experience once. I volunteered in a nursing home and got to know a number of patients as well as their visitors (I stuck out like a sore thumb because I brought my dog, LOL). One of the guys one weekend told me I'd be meeting Kevin, and that he had just gotten out of the hospital after a doozy of a manic episode. Finally Kevin burst into the room and shouted, 'HI I'M KEVIN AND I'M BIPOLAR!!!'

 hurricane hanna
Joined: 9/4/2008
Msg: 125 (view)
she has been diagnosed with bipolarism
Posted: 2/28/2009 10:26:04 AM
Be careful of assuming that if a person is irritable or erratic in their attitude or behavior, that they are bipolar.

Most of those 'manic' phases are actually quite brief and many bipolars spend most of their time at the other extreme - depressed. In not a few cases, manic episodes last only a few days, and quite a few people with bipolar disorder experience only a few manic phases in their entire lifetime.

Too, quite a few bipolar people are the 'life of the party' and are considered to be very 'sociable', 'fun' and 'a barrel of laughs' when they are manic. Mania doesn't necessarily make people mean at all.

There's the famous old story of the guy with severe mania who runs down the hall when he sees the doctor and shouts excitedly while vigorously pumping the doctor's hand and slapping him on the back, 'Why Doc! You're looking better already!'

Wild spending sprees, drug abuse and promiscuity tend to make mania VERY popular in some circles. It's because the person loses inhibitions and judgement when they are having mania. The 'brakes' are gone. That's precisely why mania is such an emergency. Manic episodes have been known to make people think they can fly, so they jump off buildings. They can damage their lives permanently thru drug use, gambling or sleeping with an HIV positive person. They can lose family, friends and loved ones, and it is also a medical emergency. Manic episodes have been known to make people die of exhaustion, dehydration or heart failure when they over exert themselves.

As one bipolar man told me, 'When I have mania, that part of my brain that says, 'No John, that's a bad idea', I don't know where that part of my brain goes, but it's GONE'.

There's the old story of the husband who asks the doctor, 'What does mania mean doc, and how can I tell when my wife has it? The doctor replies, 'Well, Mr Jones, it's when your wife goes wild in bed, makes friends with everyone, drinks like mad and stays up all night cleaning the house', to which Mr Jones replies, 'Doc, are you saying that's a BAD thing?'

The average number of cycles a person experiences in their lifetime is something like FIVE. It is not a daily occurance and it is NOT the explanation for most erratic behavior you see.

Even with 'rapid cycling' disorder, the fastest changes of mood, or 'mixed episodes', which are quite rare, you don't see the sudden changes in attitude and mood that people usually describe a person who is 'difficult' and 'changeable' have. Even in rapid cycling people's moods last WEEKS, not minutes.

If you ever see a 'mixed episode' you will NEVER mistake in for anything else. It's unbelievable.

I once heard of a guy experiencing a mixed episode who ran in front of a car, and then proceeded to run a mile and a half on two broken legs. Another fellow jumped out the hospital window (he had just been admitted) and ran down the street, again, two broken legs.

Much of the 'changeable', 'erratic' behavior you see in people is not bipolar disorder at all, but a personality disorder, depression or some other disorder. People who are irritable are often suffering from a medical disorder that makes them feel bad, some are on incorrect amounts of medications for other conditions, and the medication (or combination of medications prescribed by different doctors) makes them irritable.

A goodly amount of anger and irritability has to do with substance abuse. With nearly 20% of the country's population said to e suffering from substance abuse, that's not exactly a rare situation.

People who are constantly angry, unhappy or have bursts of temper, and not necesssarily bipolar. When a bipolar person is angry, unhappy or has bursts of temper, it isn't necessarily due to his or her illness at all. The person may feel frustrated, stigmatized and angry at having an illness they can't seem to get a handle on. A person with a mental illness may be unhappy just simply in reaction to having a mental illness. It seems unfair and people grieve. Grieving can make many people very changeable and angry and irritable.

People who are depressed quite often are extremely irritable. They 'fly off the handle' at the slightest thing - this doesn't mean they're bipolar.

The most changeable, unpredictable, nasty two people I know are two relatives, functioning at a very low level of chronic depression usually referred to as 'dysthymia'. One of them suffers from 'rage disorder' and has since childhood. He also has paranoia when the depression worsens, which at times it does, even though most of the time he appears to 'coast' along at a fairly miserable level, angry, complaining, accusing and keeping busy with his work, which he's quite good at.

He can be EXTREMELY irritable and can change from discussing something rationally to screaming and throwing things in the space of one second. Once he had an incredibly outburst because I dropped a 1/4" piece of carrot on the floor and did not speak to me for three days after. He married a strong, opinionated woman who set sensible boundaries, insisted on reasonable behavior and accepted yelling but not throwing and hitting. They got divorced after several years. His next wife also divorced him, when their toddler daughter was curiously poking at a heavy planter on a shelf and he said, 'let her pull it down on her, it will teach her a lesson to do what she's told'. The mother saw that the heavy planter would have killed the toddler, and moved out that day and started divorce proceedings. It was the last straw in a long line of incidents.

The other has very strong outbursts of temper occasionally but is otherwise similar. They are the children of a mother who had chronic untreated depression and a father who had the same violent outbursts of temper, and frequently seemed depressed, angry and isolated, and became paranoid when his depression was worse. The two relatives have feuded and had a very up and down relationship over the years; they did not speak to each other for thirteen years after the brother acted 'uppity' to the sister when they were on a church trip together.

Neither of them would EVER be diagnosed as 'bipolar' by any decent health care professional. They would probably both respond well to mild antidepressant medication and Cognitive Behavioral Therapy and counseling, but are not willing to accept any help.

Depression has somehow gotten a reputation as a 'fashionably tragic' disease in which people just sit around with their head in their hands, and look sad and grateful when people try to help. In truth, depression in itself is a very major illness that has a profound affect on people's responses, behavior and perceptions.

These days, anyone who has annoying behavior tends to get called 'bipolar' and it is started to be a synonym for '***hole' instead of a diagnosis.

Please don't assume that if a person is irritating or angry, that the are 'bipolar'.
 hurricane hanna
Joined: 9/4/2008
Msg: 124 (view)
she has been diagnosed with bipolarism
Posted: 2/28/2009 10:11:42 AM
The reason is basically that the brain is simply not designed to monitor how it is functioning when it is damaged. As a brilliant psychiatrist told me once, 'The brain does not know when the brain is sick'.

We don't have 'diagnostic software' in our heads, and trying to figure out what's wrong when you're not making sense is a little like trying to bite your own teeth.
 hurricane hanna
Joined: 9/4/2008
Msg: 4 (view)
Posted: 2/28/2009 10:08:35 AM
Horse people ALL have good taste
 hurricane hanna
Joined: 9/4/2008
Msg: 149 (view)
Would you follow your partner if they wanted to sell it all and join a cult?
Posted: 2/28/2009 10:05:52 AM
God of Rock, that's the bizarre thing about cults. If a cult is culturally sanctioned in your social group, it isn't actually a cult. It's a special interest group, LOL.

The military is usually viewed as not a cult, unless you're not in favor of the military, LOL, then it's a cult. People often call some group a 'cult' when they don't like it.

More people my age seem to have a fairly strong dislike of 'organized religion' and might refer to themselves as 'spiritual' rather than 'religious' because they don't join one of the major religions, and they may instead join a more appealing religion or one that's viewed as out of the mainstream.

But whether people join an ordinary group or one that's less accepted, people in general have an extremely strong drive to conform to something and join some sort of group.

For example, as young people, we prided ourselves on 'individuality' and 'creativity', and then proceeded to slavishly all dress the same, do the same recreational drugs, listen to the same music, and hold incredibly consistent beliefs.
 hurricane hanna
Joined: 9/4/2008
Msg: 76 (view)
Would you enter into a relationship with a person in Recovery?
Posted: 2/28/2009 6:20:07 AM
Most addiction treatment organizations recommend that a person avoid intimate relationships until their recovery is very solid. AA usually says that people should not get involved until they have been 'working the program' successfully, appropriately and sincerely for a year; and I think some people need longer.

I would recommend that if the person has stopped using for a number of years, you try to put it out of your mind as a problem, and not 'be paranoid' about it. A person who has successfully put addictions behind them for some years is quite unlikely to fall back into it. However, I would be sure that I verified that, as not all former addicts totally leave their substance abuse behind and not all are honest.

"Addicted to meetings"

Some former addicts need to participate in meetings frequently, and some do not.

For some people, attending meetings every night becomes a way to avoid household responsibilities or to avoid the difficult work of facing up to the effects of their addiction or making amends.

For some people, they simply need to attend meetings every night.

Quite a few addicts continue in manipulative, dishonest and evasive behavior even while attending meetings. My high school friend was quite a bit like this. Even if a former addict is annoying or difficult, not entirely dishonest, or 'thirteen stepping' in meetings (setting up relationships that help him avoid 'working the program' honestly and completely, or allow him to continue to manipulate and be dishonest), at least they aren't drinking or drugging.

A few people remain limited and are unable to participate in honest relationships their entire lives, they may even go back and forth using again and quitting again and again. Even for those who represent a very partial success, it is usually better than what they would be without the organization meetings.
 hurricane hanna
Joined: 9/4/2008
Msg: 12 (view)
What can You Use Orange Peels For?
Posted: 2/28/2009 4:03:18 AM
Orange peel can be made into candy. I pare off the white stuff and save them in the freezer, and when I have enough for a batch of candy, boil them in sugar syrup and candy them. They keep very well in the fridge.
 hurricane hanna
Joined: 9/4/2008
Msg: 364 (view)
Humans created by Aliens: Plausible theory?
Posted: 2/28/2009 4:01:29 AM
"Plausible theory?"


People in specific cultures begin to believe things, and believe them fervently, as a part of being exposed to 'disinformation'.
 hurricane hanna
Joined: 9/4/2008
Msg: 132 (view)
why do people commit suicide in general?
Posted: 2/28/2009 3:50:03 AM
It's quite possible that humor about suicide is something you can use privately if you are convinced it helps you, and just not share it publicly. Some people do not find humor about suicide helpful. Some people find it extremely offensive, in fact, I could say that MOST people find it offensive. You might try to remember that some people are considering suicide themselves at this moment, or have lost a person to suicide last week, or yesterday, or that regardless of when it happened, they are not ready for, and may never be ready for, humor about it. They may, in fact, find it extremely offensive.

As a person whose father and best friend committed suicide, and who has spent most of their life in mental health volunteerism and crisis intervention, I really question if you have actually come to terms with it if you make jokes about it.

I doubt it.

If your first impulse is to make such a tasteless joke about it, I seriously doubt you have 'come to terms' with the suicide that occured in your life.

Suicide, in general, is not particularly funny. A person dies. That isn't usually funny.

My autistic friend jumped off the Veterans Memorial Bridge and landed on a concrete abutment. He did not die immediately.

He was on suicide watch and escaped from a hospital when someone did not fill out the paper work for the suicide watch to be extended.

At that time, paperwork for a suicide watch had to be renewed every two weeks. Someone did not do the paperwork on time.

He lived for eight hours with a horrible skull injury and multiple fractures, while authorities frantically searched for him.

He was conscious and in a great deal of pain.

I will never find any humor in that situation. Nor do I believe in any particle of my being, that humor will ever be useful for that situation.

 hurricane hanna
Joined: 9/4/2008
Msg: 130 (view)
why do people commit suicide in general?
Posted: 2/27/2009 4:14:42 PM
Because my father and several people I knew well committed suicide, I find jokes about it offensive.

However one defines mental illness, 75% of the population does not have mental illness.

Most estimates say that about 18 or 20 % of americans have a substance abuse problem, and that severe mental illness affects about 2 - 3 % of the population, though more people have suffered from mild forms of illnesses, from an occasional period of depression in their life, from anxiety, from 'problems of daily living'.

Studies have shown that over 90% of suicides are due to untreated depression.

Depression is a medical illness.

When people are depressed, they think there is no way out of their troubles. Their thinking becomes 'black and white', everything is terrible, and every thing they see and feel just confirms how terrible things are.

Everyone has troubles, everyone has relatives and friends die, everyone has health issues, job issues, money issues, tragedies. When a person is depressed, these issues seem unsolvable, overwhelming and a demonstration of the fact that the world is a hopeless thing or that they are a worthless, awful person.

After nearly 40 years in mental health volunteerism, crisis intervention, and just generally being around in the world, I am more and more convinced this is true.

 hurricane hanna
Joined: 9/4/2008
Msg: 36 (view)
To Tell or Not to Tell?
Posted: 2/27/2009 4:12:21 PM
I don't really feel comfortable with that.

If someone is really consistently an 'unfair fighter' in an argument, I'd be more inclined to just plain old exit stage left, probably long, long before any arguments happened. People DO get angry and say things they regret during a fight though - everyone I'm not sure being dishonest because 'it might be used against me' later is something I am going to use to put a meter on my honesty. I'd far rather be honest and have the person make some angry remark during an argument, than be dishonest.
 hurricane hanna
Joined: 9/4/2008
Msg: 40 (view)
How do you recognize a controller?
Posted: 2/27/2009 4:06:45 PM
Most controllers have been doing their bit for a long, long time. It's possible that a person's 'personality' (how they deal with other people) is set at five or six years old, and most people's patterns of behavior don't change much.

Some people are very out about their wants but not controlling. Being very clear about what a person wants isn't actually controlling, when they are willing to compromise from time to time.

I know quite a few people who cut others off when they are talking, just because they are excited about what the person is talking about. They just get carried away.

Some people are quite insistent one show up on time, follow up on one's committments, or put pressure on a person to quit drinking, quit doing drugs....that isn't exactly controlling, it's often about setting boundaries and asking the other person to do what they've committed to doing and what is a part of their role.

A bossy person may be quite irritating, but he or she may not be a controller. If he merely announces loudly that he wants everyone to go to the truck pull with him on Saturday, there's not a single bit of manipulation or controlling going on. There's no consequence threatened if people don't go, and he merely says 'aw come on, why don't we all go! Come on!'

A controlling person, an actual controller, minimizes other people's feelings and values. Rather than just insisting that we go to the truck pull on Saturday, he insists that what I want to do is stupid, worthless, and a waste of time. He laughs at what I want to do or may explain in a very intellectual way how I'll never be any good at it so why waste time.

A controlling person behaves in a way that is designed to get a specific behavior and emotion out of another person. There is a certain amount of this in all social interaction. However, the controlling person does this far more, and about far more serious things.

The controlling person implies or acts out on consequences. If you don't do what he wants, you are going to suffer. Verbal harrassment, physical pain, or...sometimes one of the most effective weapons of all, the withdrawal of interest, affect, caring.

For example, my friend's ex wife constantly wanted more money from him. He paid child support and frequently bought the children extra things that they needed. He was a mechanic so he didn't have a ton of money but he gave them quite a lot, and he rented a small room to live in so he could give the children more things.

Once, she wanted some money from him, so she told him she was sick and could not afford a doctor. While he was at the house giving her the money, she pointed to a table that was covered with medicine bottles, and explained that the doctor had given her the medicines but that she had ow run out. He took a look while she was out of the room, and saw that many of the medicine bottles had labels twelve and more years old. The medicine bottles were meant to influence his behavior.
 hurricane hanna
Joined: 9/4/2008
Msg: 202 (view)
Getting even or holding a grudge... which would you do?
Posted: 2/27/2009 3:46:08 PM
"Let’s say someone does something quite horrid to you, and you have the option of doing something truly evil to get even with the person, or holding a grudge for a long time.

Which do you choose? "

I can't conceive of doing either. Both options are very negative and have an even worse effect on the person doing it than the person it is directed at.
 hurricane hanna
Joined: 9/4/2008
Msg: 33 (view)
To Tell or Not to Tell?
Posted: 2/27/2009 3:44:00 PM
There is virtually no secret that would 'not affect the relationship'. It's impossible.

I don't think a partner needs to know every little gruesome detail of every bad date, but there's very little that can happen in one's life that is legitimate to keep secret.

But there are a few things.

For example. I don't usually tell 'potentials' about the encounter with the very large man who came over to my house to teach me yoga, and showed up in a ballerina's body tight.

Oh how it did constrain him in various surprising ways.

He actually had invented a type of yoga that involved a blend of ball room dancing and yoga. His outfit had a few military flourishes to it.

And for myself, the ballet slippers were a final touch.
 hurricane hanna
Joined: 9/4/2008
Msg: 2 (view)
Posted: 2/27/2009 3:37:39 PM
Yet I don't see any other threads in this area about art.
 hurricane hanna
Joined: 9/4/2008
Msg: 81 (view)
care and bi-polar
Posted: 2/27/2009 2:06:40 PM
There seems to be a huge amount of resentment here about bipolar disorder. Bipolar people are 'mean', 'selfish', etc.

I've been around hundreds of bipolar people all my life, for close to 5 decades...their behavior may be annoying, but they are not acting like that because they have made a choice to be anoying.

I would like to add one caution to this mess - LOL - many, many people assume someonne is bipolar if they're moody or demanding, and quite a few people say they've been diagnosed with bipolar disorder when they have not.
 hurricane hanna
Joined: 9/4/2008
Msg: 1 (view)
Posted: 2/27/2009 8:12:12 AM
Does anyone like to visit art galleries or museums, or take studio or art history classes, or talk about art?

I'm not really worried about what sort of art it is...just art of any type.

Do people still enjoy art? Old art, new art, anything?

I like nothing better than to drool over original art works or head out to a museum for a new exhibit. My town has one of the best art museums in the United States, and is full of Pacific Island, Oceanic and oriental art. I often wondered why, and happened to check out the name on my gigantic art history book...none other than the guy who directed this art museum for nearly 30 years and was in charge of wandering all over the earth and finding great works to add to the museum.
 hurricane hanna
Joined: 9/4/2008
Msg: 70 (view)
Posted: 2/27/2009 8:01:28 AM
It's possible he may have English as a second language. I hear that in Japhiristan, the training of a psychiatrist goes exactly has he described.

Dealing with a mentally ill person who won't take medication and won't accept help isn't for people who get real judgemental and self-righteous, or real up in arms about doing extra work. It's hard work, it's upsetting work, and a lot of the usual rules of social conduct have to be overlooked. A really sick mentally ill person really can't help much of what he does or says. That's what happens when an illness affects the brain.

But.....we live in a society full of other people who also have rights, and 'fault' is very, very different from 'responsibility'.

People often don't like to hear that mental illness is an 'excuse' for 'bad behavior'. Many think that if I say, 'the reason for this behavior is the mental illness', that I'm asking them to excuse bad behavior. It's just not that simple.

It isn't simple at all. It's a reason for the behavior, and it's something we need to understand and be aware of...but mentally ill people are considered under the law to be the same as non mentally ill people, and bear a legal responsibility, and a social responsibility, despite the problems of their illness.

Additionally, MOST mentally ill people never get in any trouble, never so much as inconvenience, anyone but themselves. A bipolar person can just as easily be 'the life of the party' as be violent, and people just far more often tell them NOT to take medication than they tell them to take it.

What I would prefer, is that people stop being angry at them, stop calling them names, stop assuming they are all the same, and start learning more, understanding more, and being more tolerant.
 hurricane hanna
Joined: 9/4/2008
Msg: 121 (view)
Overestimation of intelligence
Posted: 2/27/2009 3:15:07 AM
There is a great deal of 'slop' in the measuring of IQ and people's scores can vary up to 20 points under different conditions so I am really not perturbed about people overestimating or underestimating their IQ by five points. That a man might bump the score up a few points or a woman bump it down, is much more an expression of our culture, and the results might be different in other countries and other cultures.

I think the theory that arrogant people are never productive, and are just noisy and annoying, is wrong.

I don't think that because someone is seen as 'arrogant' actually makes them arrogant either, especially not when the person is an already resented authority figure.

The person might simply be demanding in the classroom, or have a way of constantly challenging people and pushing them to think in a more disciplined way.

Because someone doesn't hold the 'common popular' view they may be seen as 'arrogant'. For example, the right-brain left brain ideas so common in pop psychology have no basis in fact, and may popular ideas about nutrition, supplements, mental health are completely without any real basis in fact, as are many claims about economics, race, other countries, etc. Someone who refuses to knuckle under to pressure to believe a lot of popular schlock, is often called 'arrogant'.

A great many very brilliant people who have helped humankind a great deal are extremely arrogant and annoying. I have a relative, who was involved in a lot of the first basic research that led to finding the AIDS virus and who did some incredible work on immunology and cancer, is one of the most angry, belligerent, sarcastic people I've ever met. He may have mellowed in the last few years as he aged but I have not spent much time around him so wouldn't know. When his father died he insisted he not be mentioned in the eulogy (because of some old grudge with the father) and picked a fight with his brother's wife immediately after the funeral!

Some of the best sports coaches, doctors and teachers I know are very, very arrogant and can be extremely irritable, picky and self promoting. It's popular to measure someone in a very negative way based s0lely on how much they challenge our beliefs.
 hurricane hanna
Joined: 9/4/2008
Msg: 134 (view)
Would you follow your partner if they wanted to sell it all and join a cult?
Posted: 2/27/2009 2:52:18 AM
This is the best from 'singleagain66':


Most cult leaders show some level of mental illness. I often get the impression that the most dangerous leader is one who is very paranoid, but who is not so ill that they can't carry out organized activities and recruit helpers. Oddly enough, more severely ill people are usually less dangerous, as they can't plan and organize and recruit followers. But most of the well known and sensational cults feature leaders who are obviously rather ill.

Cults in the usual sense of the word feature about a half a dozen points in common - 1. a 'transformation' (the person feels 'changed') 2. monitoring (the leaders watch the members) 3. identification (the person sees themselves as a member of the cult so much that they lose their individuality and would accept abuse from a leader) 4. feedback (the cult gives members false reports about how the cult is viewed by the outside world) 5. boundary control (the cult makes a strong distinction between itself and the outside world, keeping members away from family and friends) 6. the community reacts negatively.

Cult psychology CAN be part of groups that do positive things, such as Alcoholics Anonymous. There are practical reasons for the group isolating members from their old drinking buddies, for example - to prevent more drinking.

People can be very ambivalent about any group that controls its members - for example, some people see all organized religion as a 'cult'.

But a cult oversteps the boundaries of reasonable and moderate effects on people, and causes much greater damage and restriction than other organizations.

For example, most Christian churches can be left without the person having a psychiatric breakdown, and traditional Christian ministers do not beat, starve, or isolate their members in an armed compound and ask them to commit suicide for the cause or insist on them living in filth and giving away all their money. A neighbor might say, 'We don't see you at church any more' and there might be some tisk tisking at the grocery store, but the person will not be kidnapped, beaten, etc.

If a person capitalizes on their 'Position of Trust' to abuse a child (as some church leaders have), they aren't setting up a cult per se, but abuse of a minor does indeed have some aspects of cult psychology. The abuser needs to control and isolate his victim and the effects on the victem are extremely negative and life long.
 hurricane hanna
Joined: 9/4/2008
Msg: 66 (view)
care and bi-polar
Posted: 2/26/2009 7:34:13 PM
MOST people are not up for dealing with a mentally ill spouse or partner. That's the bottom line. It's too much for MOST people. I think quite a few people insist on judging mentally ill people by the wrong rules, though, and I don't actually believe ALL the complaints about the mentally ill really are true. Some of it is ignorance and not understanding the effects of the illness.

Dealing with the mentally ill person who is self destructive and refuses treatment is a frustrating, exhausting, frightening experience. That's why there are professionals who are trained to do that. That's why it should not be completely an untrained person's job, but be partly a partner and friend and family's job, and hopefully, to at least some extent, the job of the professional, trained person (in this budget slashing era, they aren't exactly generous with community health care).

We can argue all day over whether it makes them 'selfish' or not if they don't want to deal with a mentally ill partner. But the fact is, not a few people get involved with bipolars who are promiscuous when they are manic and very often IS the sex with a manic person that draws them in....they may not be terribly committed to helping the person if they person is more 'fun' when they are manic. Other people are utterly fascinated with the mentally ill, perhaps like one fellow I knew, who thought that a mentally ill woman would be more dependent on him and wouldn't walk out on him when he acted like a jerk....and SOME people are attracted to the healthy parts of the person, and are interested in building a healthy relationship and helping their partner to strive for better health, not because they have a morbid fascination with 'sick' people, but because the person is their partner and what partners do is help eachother reach their goals.

We can argue all day about whether bipolar is overdiagnosed or not (it is not, in fact, doctors are absolutely loathe to diagnose either bipolar or schizophrenia, they even have a criteria for schizophrenia diagnosis of seeing symptoms for six months before giving anything other than a provisional diagnosis; medication can be prescribed beforehand as psychotic symptoms are psychotic symptoms and can be diagnosed and treated independently of the diagnosis being complete), or whether all psychiatrists are jerks and just care about making money off the pharmaceutical companies....which to be perfectly honest, I think is a horrible thing to say, I know quite a few psychiatrists and none of them are like this. They actually make very little money working in community mental health, volunteer countless hours on mental health boards, and trade jokes about how to make drug company representatives GO AWAY. One of the ladies I know who is a psychiatrist was instrumental in saving my friend's life and was a tireless advocate for her patients. She spent years hobbling around on a bad hip and putting off surgery because she didn't feel she could leave her job for a few weeks and get it fixed.

The most important thing to remember is that most of what a mentally ill person does insofar as being self destructive is not a lifestyle choice or free will. The illness itself is what makes people avoid treatment and act in self destructive ways because it affects the person's ability to think and make sensible decisions. A person doesn't wake up one day and say, 'I think I'll do everything I possibly can to make myself worse today'.

ECT is used for unipolar depression, not bipolar disorder, and only in voluntary treatment, because there is a very serious benefit/not so benefit to take into account. Even newer forms have a risk of affecting memory. Medication is the treatment of choice for bipolar, but the mixture of medication and types and doses require individual adjustments and as the illness changes over the years medication changes need to be made. People who are medication compliant and report symptom changes early and get medication adjustments, rarely have severe mood symptoms when they stay on medication.
 hurricane hanna
Joined: 9/4/2008
Msg: 63 (view)
care and bi-polar
Posted: 2/26/2009 6:44:22 PM
You're wrong.

"IF I can't control this, I can't be the right partner".

You can't control a disease. Bipolar disorder needs medication. There is nothing YOU can do to 'control' it.

Many people with bipolar disorder are not willing to stay on medication and they lead a very rocky life if that's the case. The lows are terrible, but the highs are sometimes very pleasurable for people, and they can get 'addicted' to those highs, just like a person gets addicted to cocaine or alcohol. The 'fear of bad experiences' at the mental health center are unfortunately quite often 'something to say' rather than the truth, which is that the illness is in control, the person is unable to understand that they are ill or realize how the disease is affecting their life, the symptoms are pleasurable, and the person doesn't WANT to take medication - or some combination thereof.

You can't change a person's behavior if for many years, they have not been willing to stick with medication, they are unlikely to change. It's not just the 'addiction' and the pleasure of the 'high symptoms', it's more than that - people who are quite ill tend to not understand that they are ill. The part of the brain that would tell them that is not working. You can't make it work by 'explaining it again'.

The best thing you can do is tell your person that your relationship is contingent on her staying with medication. You can try to help her stay on medication by talking positively about it, telling her you're proud of her when she sticks with it, and getting her to continue to visit the doctor and an encouraging counselor. Getting advice from a psychiatrist or social worker on what kinds of things you can do to help can be very positive.

But the bottom line is this....not everyone will be able to stick with medication.

It has nothing to do with love, in the sense that 'if she loved you more she'd stick with mediation'. How well people stick with medication is very closely related to how severe their illness is and how badly it interferes with their ability to think and make sensible decisions.

It's a disease. She probably loves you very much, but when the illness is in charge, a person is quite helpless.
 hurricane hanna
Joined: 9/4/2008
Msg: 62 (view)
i think i am in SHOCK.....or disbelief....?
Posted: 2/14/2009 8:06:14 PM
I think the important thing to remember is that you and he got divorced for a good reason.

A man is under no obligation to tell his wife if he makes an anonymous sperm donation at a clinic, but it would be nice if he did so.

Since he decided not to at the time, the time is now past.

If he 'did it the natural way'....aren't you glad you're divorced?
 hurricane hanna
Joined: 9/4/2008
Msg: 96 (view)
Between Genius and Insanity
Posted: 2/14/2009 3:55:31 PM
There is no relationship between mental illness and intelligence.

There is no 'fine line between genius and mental illness'.

Anyone of any level of intelligence can become mentally ill. Severely retarded, exceptional, and everything in between.

We tend to notice it more and remark on it more when an intelligent person is mentally ill, but there is no connection.

Many people love to wax philosophical on it, but I think that has more to do with not understanding mental illness than anything else.

Mental illness is an illness of the brain that affects how the brain functions, how decisions are made, how the person speaks, how perceptions work, and how people pick up social cues, make decisions, and understand other people.

It's relatively common for a person with severe mental illness to say s/he is being transformed into something else or to make a variety of other statements about the world or him or herself. This has nothing to do with Kafka (except that he was probably mentally ill himself) or philosophy or existentialism. It's just a mentally ill person and that's how they talk sometimes, because of the illness affecting their brain.

Mentally ill people have for many centuries been the target of various speculation and pronouncements, most of them say more about our culture than about mental illness.

A person who makes strange claims or statements deserves a kind response, and not ridicule or arguments. Arguing with these statements does nothing. The thoughts and statements are due to the affect of the illness on the brain, you cannot argue or convince a person otherwise, the only thing that changes such thoughts is medication that keeps those nerves in the brain from taking such a pounding (which is what causes those symptoms - certain cells in the brain getting too much activity of certain brain chemicals). The best reaction is to listen and to try to understand the feeling behind the statements.

Often the statement can be understood as something much less exaggerated and distorted than the way it is coming out, so that, 'I'm being turned into a lion' might mean, 'I feel ill, I don't feel like I used to', and I'd say, 'I'm sorry you are having a tough time. What do you want me to do for you?', or, 'How about a good meal and some coffee?'

If someone told me they were being transformed into a lion, I would not tease them or argue with them.

I'd remain calm and non judgemental. I would try to encourage the person to see a doctor, but if they were unwilling, I would try to keep a trusting contact going, in the hope of helping the person to feel safe and cared for (cared for in a calm, non pressure way), and in the hope that some day they could be encouraged to accept some help.
 hurricane hanna
Joined: 9/4/2008
Msg: 116 (view)
Child Torture - Can God Exist?
Posted: 2/9/2009 6:14:17 PM
The author of Misquoting Jesus, about Biblical study, says that he has become an agnostic, after a life of education at schools like Oral Roberts and other religious schools and a degree in Divinity, and most of a lifetime spent in Bible study, became an agnostic because he could not resolve the question of the existence of suffering.

Usually the answer is that it is God's plan, and that it is mysterious and we can't understand it. Since the beginning of mankind there has been suffering and people who have agonized over why, even long before the existence of Christianity and in every religion, it has been something that people have struggled to understand.

I think for me the best answer I have ever found, was actually in an old film called 'The Seventh Seal' by Ingemar Bergeman. In the film there was a witch being burnt at the stake for heresy. There was a knight who watched this and railed against the suffering in the world and agonized and shook his fist at the heavens and cried out with eloquent words asking why.

The knight had a page, who was a more simple man who had never studied philosophy.

While the knight was raising his fists to the heavens and crying about why, why why...the page was standing close to the woman being burned at the stake. As the fire was being kindled he seemed to know he could not save her, but when she called out softly, 'water, water', he brought her a small cup and eased her suffering.

It's an old movie, slow paced, black and white. Today people might find it melodramatic or sappy, I guess.

I think it has a good lesson. I think that we can't ever really fully have an answer for why some innocent child is tortured or why someone gets killed in an accident or why all the terrible wars are fought or anything else.

All we can really do is just try to reach out to people and try to help them, comfort them, work in some small way to help them out. A lady I know worked with the homeless and she was determined to get one sick guy on the street into a hospital. One of the court people told her, 'Forget this guy, just let him die, you can't save the whole world'. She said, 'No I can't, but I can do something for this one person'.
 hurricane hanna
Joined: 9/4/2008
Msg: 48 (view)
Abuse - Constructive reactions only please!
Posted: 2/8/2009 4:17:41 PM
I'm always inspired when I see people who have been abused working to make their lives better. Congratulations to the people who have come forward on this thread and supported a friend.

I feel that when an abused person cares so deeply for someone else who has been abused that they can rise up and defend that person, while they may still have some bumps in their road, they have truly triumphed over the past.
 hurricane hanna
Joined: 9/4/2008
Msg: 40 (view)
Abuse - Constructive reactions only please!
Posted: 2/8/2009 8:55:46 AM
Anyone who would see you as 'soiled', you don't want in your life anyway.

Some people feel abuse victems 'make others pay' or 'punish other relationships' or 'hate men'.

Unfortunately, this sounds more like an excuse for people who have little ability for empathy and understanding to 'dismiss' some people from their lives, and is an excuse for not having more understanding and patience.

I don't really think so many victems are so angry or so vengeful, or tearing apart so many current relationships. Some people are, indeed, very very angry about what happened to them, some people do have a lot of trouble in adulthood due to the past abuse, but in general, I find abuse victems are eager to find a new life and to find a way to manage the past.

The movies have characterized abuse victems unfairly as vengeful, angry and chronically destroying their current relationships.

Often, the abused person themselves feel soiled and like 'used goods'. If they are depressed, it can seem like everything suggests that they are worthless and unloved...but be forwarned, people do indeed say such things to victems, as well as that they could have stopped the abuse, that they enjoyed it, and many many other things, are indeed said to victems, all of these statements are unhelpful and just cause more pain.

Don't be too concerned about hurting the feelings of a sexual abuser when you are trying to recover. It's a little bit like worrying if a murderer has stressed a finger pulling the trigger, no matter what, the abuser's issues aren't your concern, they are someone else's concern, as well as the chest beating about how their victems 'deserved it' and 'asked for it'.

It's more important for you to recover and to get on with your life and find good things in your life.

I would recommend only telling someone if it looks like the relationship is going forward and you think your partner needs to know.

One of these days, you'll meet someone who you simply feel comfortable with, and things will work out.

You won't have to worry or think about whether to tell your partner or not. It will come out some day in a very natural and relaxed way, and not because you feel you 'must tell him' because it will affect your relationship or turn him away or because you need to find out if he really cares for you despite the past.

It will come out, merely because you will want your partner to know who you are, and part of that is knowing your past.

It doesn't always need to be told. I know people who were so severely affected that they DON'T gain from telling others, it merely opens wounds that can never completely heal, and they prefer to let it be enclosed in a private part of them. But for many people, sharing the past, good and bad, is a relief.

Doing the work is a part of recovery. The next part is the relationship work and the healing.

One day, living and loving well becomes the best revenge...but by then, it doesn't even feel like revenge. There is always a scar, a hurt you may access at times, but it no longer cripples you, it no longer weights on your mind, and you no longer have to wonder, 'Should I tell him'.
 hurricane hanna
Joined: 9/4/2008
Msg: 44 (view)
womens expectations and shopping lists, OVER THE TOP
Posted: 2/8/2009 7:11:06 AM
A friend of mine once shared her 'practical' shopping list for a relationship:

1. Not currently living in a public institution

2. Between the age of 14 and 98

3. MOSTLY heterosexual

That seems pretty basic.
 hurricane hanna
Joined: 9/4/2008
Msg: 35 (view)
Would you continue seeing someone if you found out they're really sick?
Posted: 2/4/2009 3:35:42 AM
My mom was killed very suddenly in a car accident, but when I compare that to how my friend felt after her mom's long, long battle with cancer, I see actually, surprisingly, very little difference in how we both reacted.

Most of my family members who have passed died very, very suddenly. My sister's father in law - the driveway bank collapsed while he was standing on it. Brother in law - heart attack while flying in a glider. Mother, car accident.

There is no easy sort of death. But each person can contribute something to you that you can hold within you, no matter how long or short a time they have.
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