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 Author Thread: What is your personal backup plan?
Joined: 11/3/2005
Msg: 24 (view)
What is your personal backup plan?
Posted: 3/5/2010 8:22:20 AM
The truth of it all is this is the right wings big plan. Try to make America fail so they can get the America they always dreamed of or shall we call it, Little Somalia?

The right wingnuts, want to be able to have their sweatshops here in the USA and never get taxed and let the poor people they have sucked the life out of for their corporate dreams die from hunger, disease or anything else that gets rid of them.

This whole thing is a pipe dream of the most extreme of them. They pray every night before they go to bed that Obama will deliver them to evil and that the country will fail.

Funny thing is all reports point to recovery.

Their doom scenario is coming the US will rise from the ashes of the fire caused by greedy **stards on wall street/corporate America, and their deregulation loving nut jobs that paved the road for this lunacy..

It will once again be a democrat bringing another new deal that will save this country from the brink.

The right wingnuts hate this and know they are a breed going extinct as we speak. The baby boomers are going into the twilight of their lives and with them will die this idiocy of the right wing religious zealots.

To the fiscal conservatives, man I feel sorry for you guys. You guys make sense sometimes unlike the others whom hijacked your party out from under you.

I feel most for the fiscally conservatives whom mostly are social liberals. They are getting such a bad rep thanks to the "sky is falling, and god is going to smite us all", people.

I guess there is a lesson in there somewhere for you guys though. Don't take on religious extremists into your party just because they CLAIM they agree with your fiscal policy.

Further anyone who thinks "argentina's" issues where caused by social programs is totally devoid of any sense of what happened there.

They had issues due to right wing lunacy via the IMF and greedy business owners ripping off the companies. This was proven when workers went and took over the closed down abandoned factories and re opened them and made them work again.
The take "la toma"

It was progressive movements that brought agentina from the brink.

Joined: 11/3/2005
Msg: 17 (view)
What is your personal backup plan?
Posted: 3/4/2010 11:11:50 AM
You see MG, in the USA we have a crew of people whom love to scream at everyone to love it or leave it when their guy is in office running a muck. Soon as the people elect another party into office they disagree with, they start discussing civil unrest and civil war.

They are Faux patriots.

They want their cake, your cake, the cake that belongs to everyone else, and to eat it too.

Love it or leave it indeed.

To me I don't believe in this love it or leave it shyte.

To me if you do not love what is going on one has to work harder to embody the change to make it better.

I do not wish to see either side leave it. I think both sides need each other. There are valuable things both parties and other parties have to share in the debate but, there does come a time to make changes.

To continuously do the same failing thing and expect different results is the definition of insanity.

Many of the old ideals are an utter failure yet, they want us to love those as if they were a fixed part, that can never change of America. Not only are they absolutely incorrect about this, they are in for a rude awakening if they think they can bully the rest of the nation to force it down our throats.

Holds up a mirror that reflects all the years people said love it or leave it.

I hope 2 things come from this. First I hope the right wingers of this country some whom are dear friends and family of mine, can learn that it is OK for people to have different views and still love this nation. I know this goes against conservatism, which is opposed to change but, there is not another option for something that is broken and not only sinking this economy but, the world economy.

What that change needs to be should be debated by both sides but, it is opposed to conservatism to make a change so they just become the party of NO!

I do not wish to see you people leave as you wished upon those whom did not share your views while you were in power. I wish for you to add your voice to the debate, even if after hearing that voice the people choose another route. Instead however your leaders are simply acting as obstacles and not offering anything new or novel.

Maybe we are expecting too much from you since it goes against your very nature to change. Maybe all we should expect from you is to stand in the way of progress. Which is fine too just dont be shocked when people go around you and stop paying attention to you. Since a party that is afraid of change is a afraid to live. A party that no longer can live goes the way of the dinosaur.

To me it will be sad because there are some things I agree with from the conservative movement just as there are some things on the other side I agree with. I am one whom belongs to neither side in particular, whom observes beneficial and not so beneficial things in both parties.

I remember well the lessons of my elders whom told me it takes all kinds to make the world go 'round.

It seems to me there are some extremists on the right wing whom would love nothing more than a chance to take out the nation that they once claimed to love.

So I ask where did all those supposed "patriots" whom told everyone else to love it or leave it go? Oh wait they are turning into extremist militia groups.

Sad state of affairs indeed. Well all I can say is if, god forbid this nation does decide to come apart at the seams and go down the path of civil war, get ready to speak Chinese.

Joined: 11/3/2005
Msg: 14 (view)
What is your personal backup plan?
Posted: 3/4/2010 7:14:10 AM
Grandfather taught me as a young child.

Never trust anyone to feed you. Not a government, not a corporation, not a business.

He taught me very young the importance of keeping a Garden full of healthy food.

He survived the depression as a poor man. Shot jackrabbits and ate thistle barely able to survive. Then he like many others had little choice but to get involved in the WWII.

I remember clear as day his voice telling me.

Grow a garden. If you are hungry people can make you do things you do not wish to do just to be fed. A people cannot be free without their own food supply.

People without their own food might have the illusion of freedom but, if we allow our food to be controlled by others not only must we eat things we would never even consider doing to ourselves, they can take that food away and make you do whatever it is they wish.

If it looks like people are gong to go crazy I will go to my brothers 75 acre organic farm in the middle of no where, and ride it out in peace. I have my own food here which I would turn over to my neighbors. When I first moved in here first thing I did was put in 4 gardens. This year going to put in fruit trees that will feed people for hundreds of years after I am gone from this world.

The best thing we can do is to plant our own food. Plant heirloom open pollinated seed if you wish to save your own seed every year and not have to rely on some company for seed every year.

Here's to true freedom.

"Only when the last tree has died,
Only when the last river has been poisoned, Only when the last fish has been caught will man realize he cannot eat money..." -Cree native American proverb.
Joined: 11/3/2005
Msg: 14 (view)
Left and right united in opposition to controversial SCOTUS decision
Posted: 3/4/2010 6:51:38 AM
I never spoke once about silencing anyone.

I said we should bring charters back. The corporations will have to prove once again they serve the public of this country in some way other than raping our economy.

It is a means to keep multinationals from taking over our country.

If you didn't get it I said I agree with why the court said what it did because I do strongly believe in free speech.

I believe strongly that there is a need to take the corporate personhood crap away yesterday. They are not a person and corporations are not citizens. The individual people MIGHT be in some cases but, the entity as a whole could care less about our country. That has been proven over and over again as the jobs suck out of our country in order to open sweatshops in countries without labor laws. They sell the nation out whom in many cases built their corporation in the first place, for the profits and allure of enslaving people in other nations.

Again I am not with the people whom wish to stifle free speech albeit for a cause I understand. The point is corporations should have never been considered a person in the first place and most especially should not have been given more rights than the true citizens of this country, the real people of this nation.

The people are searching for any way to keep their government from ignoring them for the corporate "special interest." Look at the phrase they like to use "Special interest" that means more important than the people whom vote.

It needs to be dealt with. Maybe we can work together and come up with something but, the real question is are the politicians going to have the stones to stand up to their corporate masters?? What happens when they start to yank on the puppet strings?

Will they sell us out and kowtow to their corporate puppet masters or will they do good by we the people?

That is the true question of this thread. The rest is all debate on how to keep things on the up and up.

Joined: 11/3/2005
Msg: 11 (view)
Left and right united in opposition to controversial SCOTUS decision
Posted: 3/3/2010 8:40:48 AM
We need to go back to corporations needing to file for and prove they deserve charters and corporations should never be viewed as people with the same rights as people. This is where the conflict is.

The supreme court was right in so far as since the government give the rights of a person to corporation and then gives them the extra rights of limited liability that real people can never get, they have 1st amendment protections.

This is not really the problem. The problem is they are calling a multinational corporation a citizen of the USA and giving them the rights of a person.

That should be done away with post haste.

A Corporation is not a person nor is it a citizen of this nation. in fact most of them are multinationals that will sell this nation out in the name of profits in a heart beat. Anyone else hear the sucking sound of jobs leaving the country? Yet corporations are being viewed as citizens these days.

It was not always so, in fact, they used to have to apply for charters and prove they served some public good other than just taking advantage of our economy.

Reinstate charters, and do away with this notion of a corporation being a person.

Then they can put all those restrictions back on them that are needed.

The problem is the corporations own the government now. Finding politicians with the stones to stand up and do what is right for our nation is going to be tough.

I applaud the president for bringing it up in his address. It took stones to even mention it.
Joined: 11/3/2005
Msg: 5 (view)
Left and right united in opposition to controversial SCOTUS decision
Posted: 3/2/2010 10:41:16 AM
The funniest part about the name Hussein is that the guy whom had that as a last name was a product of the US and British obsession with the middle east and more properly it's oil. Put Saddam Hussein into power by 4 bloody CIA backed coups then had 2 wars that the USA dropped billions on to take out the very guy they put into office.

That our president has a middle name other than an English one is hardly news worthy unless you are a Xenophobic nut.

Racist maybe not, more likely brainwashed by a certain news station that race baits all the time. Some people start repeating those talking points like good little parrots. It does not always mean they are racists. Though it is telling of their "cultural filters" as one of our finer Canadian posters often likes to speak about.


On the direct topic at hand. I agree no one I know right or left or in the middle is pleased by this court decision.

This is something I think both right and left should join together and get behind this president on. We need to drop the in fighting and get shit done. This is a BIG one.

This allows bribery, and by default, allows big money to take complete control of our government, and put into effect things against the interests of it's real people the citizens of this nation.. I say real people because I do not know anyone whom would call a corporation a person but, they are considered by our government as a person on the level of rights and then given special rights that none of us real people, can dream of.

I think Nader is right on, this issue and a good many others that pertain to corporate abuses in our country. I wish this president or any for that matter would put him in charge of a newly made consumer protection division of the government.

I can think of no man or woman more qualified than he for that task. Turn him loose.

Joined: 11/3/2005
Msg: 54 (view)
Van Jones resigns...
Posted: 3/1/2010 8:02:28 AM
yeah this was the headline today of

Van Jones to Head Think Tank’s “Green Opportunity Initiative”

And the Center for American Progress has announced former White House green jobs czar Van Jones will head the think tank’s new “Green Opportunity Initiative.” Jones resigned from his White House job five months ago after becoming the target of what he described as a “vicious smear campaign." On Friday, Jones made one of his first public appearances since his resignation. He spoke at the NAACP Image Awards.

Van Jones: “And I know one thing. We have people in every community in America, right now, watching this program, who don’t have jobs, who are suffering, who are afraid, living in economic uncertainty. And I know there’s a future out there for them, where they get a chance to make the products of tomorrow. If we want the jobs of tomorrow, we must make the products of tomorrow. There’s somebody right now who’s in Detroit, and they know how to make cars. There are skilled machinists, but they’re idle. Let them make the wind turbines and the smart batteries and the solar panels to re-empower this country. Let them work. Give them hope. Give them the opportunity.”

If those are the words of a commie then I like that commie. He wants to put people back to work and make things in the USA again. Oh such a bad bad man that one.

Joined: 11/3/2005
Msg: 53 (view)
Van Jones resigns...
Posted: 3/1/2010 7:42:58 AM
Let's also not forget that a many many capitalists had plenty of their own people slaughtered, maimed and killed in wars so they could get rich. Capitalism is not some holy saint in the world of economic systems.

This is exactly what I am speaking about though..

There seems to be in the minds of many people this us vs them. All or nothing.

It is pure extremism.

Why can they not co-exist side by side. Why must we force an economic system on people at all? Be it capitalist or otherwise. Should the people themselves not be allowed to determine how they wish to do business?

If a person or group of them want to start an all worker owned company meaning when the company profits it gets divided how the workers themselves see fit to vote for. Maybe that means everyone gets paid the same wage, maybe they set up shares, maybe they set up with some getting paid more than others. I see no reason why this cannot operate side by side with the old capitalist model.

This is how I see the future going in general. No need for bloodshed or force. Just use what works best for you and yours.

My whole point in this is should we start making people resign because they may belong to a party some may not agree with? Should we make someone resign for being an extreme right winger since they are trying to do so with the left?

I do not find that very conducive to having a functional anything.

It seems what the right wing McCarthyism that runs rampant in some circles in this country only serves to keep, is the staus quo, and it does so, by breaking down the debate with hard line extremist propaganda.

Some I have met in my country, have a completely narrow and insane childlike view of communism and capitalism.

One thing they do not understand is that Communism need not be run by a state nor forced.

Communism can be as simple as a few people pooling their resources together to better their community. It is not some bad word, nor even the antithesis of capitalism. Many countries have learned to mix the two and even other systems together. Only here in the USA do we stand on the extremism that they are somehow incompatible.

It is people uniting and working together for the betterment of the community instead of only thinking of self advancement. The rest is in how you set into action. It can be a liberating thing or the opposite depending on how it is used.

Now there certainly exist extremists just like on the other side but, as fiddler said so well, just because communism had a Stalin does not mean that this is all communism ever offered to the world.

Just as slavery is not the only thing capitalism offered to the world.

My point in all of this is... Should we start going crazy and demanding people resign just because they belong to a political party we don't agree with??

I can tell you if you think things are broken now, continue with this crazy mindset and the country will come apart, and the world will leave us behind.

This man Van Jones has some great ideas to put America back on track to help do their part to bring the world to a more sustainable place. It would put many of us back to work that lost work due to moving jobs off shore.

The people whom can use that work the most are likely chasing it off afraid of the "red tide."

*Face palm* America is looking like a drunken redneck passed out in it's own puke once again.
Joined: 11/3/2005
Msg: 3 (view)
Dave Barry's year in review: 2009
Posted: 2/26/2010 8:30:21 AM

The worst news !!! ..... there are a f@ck load of job lay offs ahead of us ....

The funniest part is everyone blames a guy whom can do little or nothing about it. The president of the country, instead of the CEO's of Sachs and others of the wall street ilk whom really caused this nightmare along with all the deregulation that went into effect that allowed these greedy **stards to get away with it.

PS those same CEO's and Wall street people are getting HUGE bonuses right now while they sink the country into the status of just another third world nation.

We are seeing the rich get richer and the poor get poorer as per usual, the big difference this time is the middle class is going extinct.

So never fear soon enough we will take our fall thanks to our greedy friends on wall street and our government's stupid obsession with pandering to them.

It don't matter the party R or D, they are both in bed with them.

Our government sold us out a LONG LONG time ago to corporate interest. The writing is as plain as day to see.

Corporations have extra rights if limited liability that we can never have as individuals then, on top of that they have all the rights we enjoy has real people. In other words the government gives them special treatment. Then on top of that since they own half the world already they can now throw unlimited amount of funds to buy off, topple, and intimidate any politician with any serious drive to get in office and make a change.

Yep, what we can agree with is things are bad, where we severely disagree is people like to only point at Obama but, guess what 99% of this shit he inherited from someone whom was in office for 8 and watched the ship sinking on fire and decided to throw gas on the fire instead.

I dont necessarily blame the last administration alone either.. There were a lot of people involved in selling our nation out to wall street and corporate interest. They wear those R's and D's next to their names.

As a person whom belongs to neither party, I see plenty whom deserve blame whom get none while I see everyone dumping on both this president and the last one.

When are the people going to focus their anger in the correct direction and stop listening to these morons whom just try to divert our attention to someone whom has a term limit? While the real robbers run off with all of the loot?

If you want to know who is at guilt the answer is simple follow the money.
Joined: 11/3/2005
Msg: 60 (view)
Sell it somewhere else.
Posted: 2/25/2010 7:21:04 PM
LOL farmers got put out of work to feed the free market nuts whom wanted slave labor and no environmental laws in some third world wountry, not for some mouse or minnow.

Factory farms is what we got out of it. Yummy "tomatoes" with fish genes anyone?


Simple enough if you are feeling they might ration care under a government option like they are already doing now under insurance companies.

The big difference is now under the insurance companies, they dont care how old you are, and only if you can pay their insane fees for their overpriced care or not. Even then some pay those fees and get dropped or denied coverage for something they even payed for already.

So what you and others are saying is, you would rather have a CEO or a board who's only concern is for profit, in a non democratic corporation, decide whom gets care or not instead. That's whats happening now.

We can easily pass a law that only a doctor can say who and who does not need a surgery. Done deal. Any other fears of the government we can solve right now?

Easy stuff so far. Just need strict guidelines 1st one to add to the list, no denying people based on cost or age, under public option.

Keep it coming we can solve all the concerns the public might have about being apprehensive about a public option so that we can get passed this.
Joined: 11/3/2005
Msg: 59 (view)
Sell it somewhere else.
Posted: 2/25/2010 12:16:43 PM
Sadly many Americans listen to disingenuous talk show hosts, instead of people from Canada.

People I know personally from Canada think the USA is rather nutty on this issue.

I am American and I happen to agree. People in the USA are afraid of their government, and that is why we have so many problems.

So let's see we have a choice between an option that make sure everyone is covered, it will allow our businesses to compete against other countries that have similar systems..

Or we can allow the very few people whom are getting quite wealthy off of rationing care ie people die in droves, so they can get rich. We still end up paying the costs for those people to get rich and the price of health care continues to go through the roof, and eventually our businesses will no longer be able to compete with other countries that do not have to provide extremely overpriced health care coverage to their employees.

Leave it up to the spin machines and propaganda machines to call things socialist and play on American McCarthyism mindset.

It is all about keeping the status quo as usual.

Well the status quo is going to help sink this nation even further.

Wake up America..

The people should not fear the government! It is supposed to be the other way around!

Besides if we are so afraid of a government based public option why not make a public option ran by the people? Have the government collect for it through taxes and relinquish the money to the co-op. All people still covered single payer system not run by the government. It can be ran by the people and we can elect someone to be responsible for oversight.

either way there is little way around it in my view.
Joined: 11/3/2005
Msg: 51 (view)
Teabagger's - a grassroots movement or just more astroturf ?
Posted: 2/10/2010 10:58:11 AM
If you are going to quote me, might as well complete my sentences instead of taking things out of context and trying to make it seem like I was insulting the rural people.

I was stating a fact, that the republican party under Karl Rove's direction has been exploiting cultural filters, and beliefs in order to get into office people some of whom even go so far as to put on an act to look like they are good folk from the country but, are really wolves in sheep's clothing. literally and metaphorically.

George W Bush PRIME example. People vote for a truck and belt buckle, oh he is from Texas, and he is someone I would like to drink a beer with but the reality is, he was born and grew up in the north east, went to an ivy league school, and then put on a fake southern accent and buys a ranch in Texas and talks like he is completely uneducated....

How strange he was born and raised up north, school; Yale, when in office did things that hurt people severely whom make what most rural people do, the worst. Yet they go crazy for him.

I am not saying the people are stupid, quite the contrary I am saying they are being manipulated skillfully like a master fiddle player.

here is the full context of what I was saying.

someone else posted this..

They don't even know that their rage is being manipulated to achieve the goals of billionaires that want to keep on screwing the rest of the people for as long as they can.

I responded with this and the above will help clarify for you since you obviously wish to spin my words, nothing new there either.

That is exactly the point and they took that script from the republican party for certain. They have been getting rural people to vote against their own self interest for the interest of the oligarchs for a very long time. Nothing new there.

Your bringing this up is yet another attempt to play on cultural filters. It plays on this very phenomenon of which you bring up, by demonstrating it perfectly for all of us right here. Without even knowing me you call me an elitist, then demonstrate the right wings disdain for an education.

Well since you are going to use that frame of thought I guess I should introduce myself a bit further to you.

I am hardly an elitist my friend. I am one whom believes he can learn from everybody.
I have learned some of the most profound things from people of the most humble of origins. Now, if you disagree with my assessment of the topic at hand then by all means please enlighten us with your view of it. It might be more effective than attempting to play on tricks from the 1980s, calling liberals elitists, bashing people whom cherish intellect, discipline, and all that... Wow! No wonder we are having a real hard time in this country with education. We have a party that leads us to believe education, intellect, and the discipline that goes with it, is somehow a bad thing..

Either that or are you saying you want people to be educated but when they research and learn something that we should just not use it and go with the same o same o that is broken and sinking?

do tell.
Joined: 11/3/2005
Msg: 87 (view)
GMO issue.
Posted: 2/10/2010 9:44:56 AM

India Blocks Sale of Monsanto GM Crop

India has put a halt to plans to allow genetically modified eggplant from the agri-giant Monsanto to be sold on the Indian market. On Tuesday, the Indian government reversed a decision to allow Monsanto to sell its eggplant crop, known as Bt Brinjal. It would have been India’s first genetically modified food crop and the world’s first commercially cultivated genetically modified vegetable.

This came from in the headlines.

What can we do about it? Start complaining to the big stores like walmart and other major shopping chains that you want to know what items have GMO in them so you can not buy them.

Walmart banned rBGH in all of their stores due to the consumer outcries.

That pretty much put the nail in the coffin of that one GMO issue.

We as "consumers" need to wake up and realize we have a lot more power than we thought. Everything we buy is like a vote. Now that you know about this GMO issue if you do not agree with it take action! Demand labeling to the stores. They will demand it to the manufacture or ban it from their store because they know it will be bad for sales!

Also you can help educate others about the issue.

Plus if you have a farm or garden you can plant non GMO varieties.

If you own a garden I would even suggest open pollinated Heirloom varieties. You can actually be a part of preserving genetic diversity in our food plants, which is a HUGE issue.

One of the biggest threats of losing genetic diversity is when diseases and pests begin to strike. If there is only a few or one type, that gets wiped out and we have what basically happened with the potato famine.
Joined: 11/3/2005
Msg: 69 (view)
How could we possibly end poverty?
Posted: 2/9/2010 9:54:35 PM

I am for doing good to the poor, but...I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it. I observed...that the more public provisions were made for the poor, the less they provided for themselves, and of course became poorer. And, on the contrary, the less was done for them, the more they did for themselves, and became richer

I love how you left this part out as well that came before what you wrote and puts it more into context.

This operates then as a tax for the maintenance of the poor. A very good thing, you will say. But I ask, Why a partial tax? Why laid on us Farmers only? If it be a good thing, pray, Messrs. the Public, take your share of it, by indemnifying us a little out of your public treasury. In doing a good thing there is both honour and pleasure; you are welcome to your part of both.

Also not to slight any of the founding father for their inability to understand what the world would be like some few centuries into the future but, we live in a much more densely populated situation than they ever likely thought possible.

A friend of mine wrote a song. His name is Brett Dennen

oh, we're growing
faster than we ever could have dreamed
and our bellies are bulging
we're gonna burst right through our seams
it's got us all in competition
for wealth and recognition
globalization I say's a contradiction
for we can't keep paving over this world
we won't all fit in
all that we have is hope and love
so don't you worry child
don't you worry 'bout a thing
and none but those can lift us up
so we can rise above, so we can rise above
so we can rise, so we can rise above the madness
and there's enough wealth for everyone
but some have the most
and most have some
and there's enough food for us all to flourish
tell me why are so many malnourished
you say this weakness in an empty pocket, no
and I'll tell you this weakness in an empty heart
and you say there's strength in the power to control
and I'll tell you no, there's strength in only love and compassion
soon we'll find our own way home
'cause we all need a little healing sometimes
soon we'll find our own way home
'cause we all need a little healing
so give love
it's the only thing that heals you
come on sisters, give it to your brothers
so give love
it's the only thing that heals you
cause we all need a little healing
so give love it's the only thing that heals you
come on brothers, give it to your sisters
so give love it's the only thing that heals you
'cause we all need a little healing
and I can rest to show you that love will always cure you
no matter what your sickness is
no matter what hurts you
so give love it's the only thing that cures you
we all need a little healing
and if you give it, I have learned
it'll all be returned
if you only give love
if you only just give your love

better yet here is this so you can hear his awesome work...

While we are at it there aint no reason fits too.

So fitting to the conversation.

PS no one is saying damn america. I am calling america to come back home!
WAKE UP!!!!!!!!!

Joined: 11/3/2005
Msg: 46 (view)
Teabagger's - a grassroots movement or just more astroturf ?
Posted: 2/9/2010 9:23:19 PM
Oh no say it aint so madfiddler! I thought these nuts were on to something calling all the old timers for the last 60 years on their secret agenda to protect the left wing from having the stain of hitler on their record! *Said in complete Satirical fashion*

Talk about tin foil hats!!

seems like the Karl Rove and gang are up to the same stuff as usual trying to pin all their weaknesses on the left and rewrite history even though no true scholars even the nuttiest of them would ever call hitler a lefty. Nothing new here.

Oh but if rush and beck say it is so those historians nor certainly any political scientists and all of the people whom kept it a secret for the last sixty years were such dreadful liars! They had to all be red bastards!! At least pink through and through.. I mean OMG!!! How could they keep this a secret otherwise for the last 60 years?!

The other weakness that they tried to pin on democrats was their claim that republicans are better on national security and keeping us safe. Well guess what one of the worst attack on American soil was under the republicans watch and they responded by burying the country in debt from an unneeded war in Iraq and a mess in Afghanistan.. Neither made us safer only lose more money all while the economy tanks.

Brilliant job there guys!

So I am learning Tea-Baggers love Orwellian double speak as much as republicans more proof they are just another wing of the same lame duck.
Joined: 11/3/2005
Msg: 44 (view)
Teabagger's - a grassroots movement or just more astroturf ?
Posted: 2/9/2010 1:54:20 PM

They don't even know that their rage is being manipulated to achieve the goals of billionaires that want to keep on screwing the rest of the people for as long as they can.

That is exactly the point and they took that script from the republican party for certain. They have been getting rural people to vote against their own self interest for the interest of the oligarchs for a very long time. Nothing new there.

As far as the Hitler rant save it for those whom don't already know better.

If Hitler was such a lefty he would have not went crazy on the communists. Remember the

Hitler was a right wing loonie as was his buddy Benito Mussolini in Italy, and lets not forget Franco in Spain. You can try to spin it if you like but, only severely unstudied people will ever think he or any of those other nuts were lefty. Hitler hated the communists beyond all recognition. He railed constantly about two things Jews and commies.

He actually tried to get the poor to support him by promising some socialist changes but, only to try to weaken the power and pull of the communist movement in the country to the poor. He named his party as "socialist" to try to win over the poor. Which was most of Germany at that time since WWI left them in shambles. There is no real scholars whom would ever claim hitler to be a lefty.

Further if hitler was a lefty he would have joined forces with the commies not try to kill them all off as he did.

He was certainly one of the right wings most remembered/infamous nut jobs.

The left certainly has a few of their own but, hitler was not one of them.

The only type of left hitler really might have been was handed.
Joined: 11/3/2005
Msg: 38 (view)
Teabagger's - a grassroots movement or just more astroturf ?
Posted: 2/9/2010 11:35:58 AM
Yes all of my progressive friends are quite the capitalists. Not one socialist among them.

No one brought up communism but you. Socialism is not communism.

Since you brought it up though China a communist nation pretty much owns the USA now.

What bankrupted us was the bloated military budget, needless wars, and the deregulation of the markets by the free trade nuts spurred by the greedy **stards that took advantage and held our economy hostage.

Going into debt at this time is better than letting another great depression happen. Now what I think we will agree on is they should have never gave that money to the people whom caused the problem to begin with.

Just because someone is poor does not make them lazy, nor stupid, nor unmarketable, and most I know personally do not live off any teats. Those are all stereotypes that many people in this country like to tote as some kind of fact.

The fact that we took TED KENNEDY'S Senate seat

Thanks for being truthful and letting everyone know that the tea baggers are just another wing of the republican party. Though most of us already knew this.

I will watch in horror as you guys get run over with tanks on the news holding your pitchforks and torches and pray for your foolish souls. Violence will not solve a thing.

Joined: 11/3/2005
Msg: 65 (view)
How could we possibly end poverty?
Posted: 2/9/2010 11:24:44 AM
Oh I think the best way to deal with the poor is not to make a such thing in the first place.

No one should make 500 times more than the lowest paid worker. If we let someone hoard massive amounts of wealth someone else will be without a penny to their name. We live in a finite world with finite resources it is completely a crime against humanity to allow someone to become obscenely wealthy and others to live in utter destitute. Neither being ultra wealthy or ultra poor is good for the human condition. Both lead to misery.

I am not asking for handouts to the poor I am asking to make the pay scales more fair and the problem will take care of itself for the most part. There will be more balance.
Joined: 11/3/2005
Msg: 37 (view)
Teabagger's - a grassroots movement or just more astroturf ?
Posted: 2/9/2010 9:24:33 AM

Capitalists caused two major crashes in our economy in the last 100 years and you blame socialists hahaha!


You call progressives socialists and I know a great deal of progressives and all of them are capitalists. I have met few socialists in the USA. We still suffer from the effects of McCarthyism. People are still afraid of their own shadows and politics is the same as usual..

The very people whom bankrupt the nation (greedy capitalists) are blaming the "socialists" that is so typical.

That word gets thrown around a lot but, so few actually know what it is.

Things that are actually quite socialist in this country people love.

Public works, garbage collection/sanitation, fire department, military, public libraries, social security the list goes on and on.

Let's see capitalism creates things like Wall street, multi national corporations that suck the jobs out of our nation, war for a profit, imprisoning people for a profit, a broken ass health care system that throws money down the toilet, general taking advantage of the poor for profit etc etc.
Joined: 11/3/2005
Msg: 64 (view)
How could we possibly end poverty?
Posted: 2/9/2010 7:10:33 AM

I would agree with you in saying that our value system has been demolished. But it's been demolished by Hollywood, Mtv, video games and much of the other garbage on TV that our children watch.

Let me also add that I think these are not really the problem. Our value system was eroded long before these things came about. Serfdom, slavery, corporations, sweat shops, having a huge divide between rich and poor, teaching our young people to take advantage of the poor, setting up jails for profit, war for profit, and only educating people whom can afford to pay obscene amounts of money are the true causes of our problems. They are the roots of capitalism as we know it today.
Joined: 11/3/2005
Msg: 36 (view)
Teabagger's - a grassroots movement or just more astroturf ?
Posted: 2/9/2010 6:54:25 AM
same as it ever was.

The rich and powerful co opting movements and even starting bogus movements such as the tea-baggers party or whatever the term is.

They are leading the sheep to be fleeced again.

This country is in serious trouble, R or D both lead us no where beneficial for the majority.

They both serve their rich masters and their corporate machines.

There is nothing independent about the tea bagger party. There are some people whom go there whom are and probably are truly their because they are frustrated and wish to see change outside of D or R but, they are being taken advantage of by the very people they wish to shrug off.

Anytime a corporation such as Faux news co-opt a movement of people like that you know it already went to hell in a handbag and will bring nothing but the same o same o. Even worse when it was those very people whom started the movement in the first place and then try to make it seem "grass roots".....
Joined: 11/3/2005
Msg: 63 (view)
How could we possibly end poverty?
Posted: 2/9/2010 6:44:28 AM

I would agree with you in saying that our value system has been demolished. But it's been demolished by Hollywood, Mtv, video games and much of the other garbage on TV that our children watch.

Every single one of those things are products of capitalism.

My Uncle started his own heating and cooling company and farms on the side. He's doing great. My friends dad started his own Insurance comapny 15 years ago and now they are a very big Insurance company in our state.

Cant start businesses like that with out already having lots of money from somewhere. You think it so easy for people born below the poverty line to do those things, when they have no chance at a good education, no chance for someone to give them credit etc etc?

The system is slanted to purposely keep people down and let others have an easy go at it.

So if you think that hard work gets more hard work and less money? Then what does being lazy get you?

Well depends on how rich your family was. All my lazy friends get a huge check every month because every single one of them are trust fund babies. All my poor friends work at least one full time job that does not even give them enough to live off of, sometimes they are even forced to get a 2nd job just to barely scrape by. They are some of the hardest working people I know!

This system is an utter failure time for a serious overhaul IMO.
Joined: 11/3/2005
Msg: 61 (view)
How could we possibly end poverty?
Posted: 2/7/2010 1:36:21 PM
It is funny outdoorsguy. Nearly every poor person I know works the hardest and worst jobs and sometimes has more than one. Most all of the laziest friends of mine are trust fund babies.

Flies in the face of the age old conservative saying about working hard etc. etc. Guess what in our system hard work gets more hard work and less money. Taking advantage of other people is rewarded with higher pay and little to nothing work wise...

Our value system has been demolished by capitalism.... It is an epic failure.
Joined: 11/3/2005
Msg: 22 (view)
Gandhi’s Top 10 Fundamentals for Changing the World
Posted: 2/3/2010 8:57:46 AM
The power of nonviolence is oft underestimated.

The people standing up nonviolently for what is just and correct, engaging in acts of civil disobedience, and nonviolent protest, is what makes beneficial change throughout the peoples history.

Violence only seems to solve one problem and yet, creates five new ones.

This is a fine example of violence, and racism being defeated by the power of nonviolence and civil disobedience in bring beneficial change about.

enjoy and thank you democracy now! Well done.

We are still being blessed by Gandhi and his movement for, it was his message that inspired our movement for civil rights in this country.

Just another example of the power of nonviolence and civil disobedience.

Joined: 11/3/2005
Msg: 59 (view)
How could we possibly end poverty?
Posted: 1/21/2010 1:59:14 PM
Poverty only exists because we continue to allow it's opposite to exist.

One man's saving is another man's food he cannot find.

If you allow the dragons to hoard all the treasure there will be poor people whom will sacrifice their children to the dragons army, to do all manner of obscene things to other poor people all, just to get a bite to eat, and a chance to become a dragon themselves some day.

Let's look at it this way. We live in a finite world with finite resources. If we allow some people to have 50 houses and 500 cars and a huge bank account, there will obviously be people whom are stuck on the opposite end of the spectrum, in poverty.

We are all interconnected in this world. There is no getting around that. What affects one of us will eventually have an effect on all of us. Some day the western world will learn this.

These issues are linked. We need to ask ourselves as a species do we continue to be draconian or do we finally become truly humane?

The answer is yes we can end poverty.

The real question here, really is do the oligarchs really wish to end poverty?

The answer to that question is no. They use their situation to force them to do things against their will.

They used to chain people with irons to force them to do things now the shackles are made of dollars.
Joined: 11/3/2005
Msg: 79 (view)
Transgender washrooms?? Are they needed?
Posted: 1/15/2010 8:46:59 AM
Yeah, this is a strange thread. No one would know the difference between a transgendered person peeing sitting down from a woman sitting down unless they are looking. It will sound exactly the same. pee hitting the water.

I think gendered bathrooms are beyond puritanical as is. To make a separate bathroom for transgendered folk is beyond stupid. It makes it like they have some sort of disease and they cannot be in the restroom with other men and women. Which I would find more offensive by far.

I think some people in this thread have more issues about sexual orientation than most of the transgendered folk I have met. I have never heard a single one complain ever about which restroom they use when they have to go. They just go.

Yes it is true some people come mentally orientated as the opposite sex. It is also true that some people imitate it for attention as well and that still others only do it to shock others. In the end it does not really bother me what a person chooses or was born with when it comes to orientation.

To waste money and make bathrooms only suited for transgendered folk??

Well it would make sense for a lot of places to make a unisex bathroom for overflow. Especially a club that serves alcohol but, to waste money on a transgendered bathroom unless the population is high (gay bar, or area that has a lot of transgendered etc) is idiotic.

I bet if you asked most transgendered people what was highest on their list of things to change about society it would have nothing to do with bathrooms.

It would have more to do with all the people, tryin to kill them, beat them etc. simply because they are "different", or people's ignorance in the way they treat them.

In short no transgendered restrooms are not needed. In fact this is more like a troll post that, feeds to the conservative nonsense mentality that somehow there is a conspiracy of "all minority groups are trying to get special attention."

What these people whom think this way, do not understand is these groups are not asking for special treatment at all. They wish to be treated EQUALLY that is all.

It is not equal to give special privileges to men and women whom choose to make a commitment and not offer that same privilege to 2 men or 2 women whom choose to commit their lives together.

These are the things minorities are demanding from the public. This whole thread just plays into the hands of the other side whom wish to keep the status quo.

Same as it ever was.
Joined: 11/3/2005
Msg: 16 (view)
Gandhi’s Top 10 Fundamentals for Changing the World
Posted: 1/11/2010 11:10:25 AM

People fight.

There are more tools in the box of a warrior than violence. The struggle should continue. Gandhi never once said to surrender. In fact what he was leading people to do was far more courageous than acting out in violence. They stood up against serious "bad guys", whom cared little if they cracked nonviolent protesters over the head and killed or maimed them. Many were wounded many died but, the followers of Gandhi were able to end the cycle of violence with their courageous tactic of not using it themselves.

They faced evil with nothing but love and desire for change in their heart and the courage to stand up and demonstrate that through nonviolent civil disobedience and won.

That is the point. Not pretty quotes or your "good guy" "bad guy" dualistic analogy.

The road of violence is littered with cowards. The road of nonviolence makes a coward too afraid to even think about it.
Joined: 11/3/2005
Msg: 117 (view)
Obama disapproval on health care up to 52 percent
Posted: 12/18/2009 12:28:47 PM
Well, I am opposed to the bill because it does not get rid of the problem our medical system has. It is being FUBAR by the insurance companies. We will have no choice but to move to single payer eventually. The costs are going to continue to skyrocket under for profit insurance.

I think it would be wise to make a single payer system and for those people whom are afraid of the government running it. Have it NOT be run by the government but, the funds collected VIA tax system and handed over to a coop run by the people themselves we can elect someone to look over it and hold them accountable if something is wrong. Make the system non profit. It should just worry about paying for everyone to have health care and pay the salaries of those needed to make it work.

If we do not eventually do this our businesses will no longer be able to compete with countries that have universal health care. Because the costs are going to continue to skyrocket and that means bad news for
American business.

Throwing out the public option is the most short sighted thing I have ever heard.
Joined: 11/3/2005
Msg: 44 (view)
New christian craze: Praying for Obama's death.
Posted: 12/18/2009 9:07:43 AM
I forgot to add I once had a priest I will leave nameless tell me boldly.

"Man created God in order to control other men."
Joined: 11/3/2005
Msg: 43 (view)
New christian craze: Praying for Obama's death.
Posted: 12/18/2009 9:04:08 AM
Yeah, well this is no surprise to me. I have long considered a large group of the rabid Christians in this country to be a death cult. They wish for there to be blood in the streets and the rapture to come. They are not playing with a full deck because their prophets have been proven to be liars and thieves. They want to make something come true in their fairy tale of a book they call the bible. This is why they support insanity and bloodshed. If Jesus really existed he would be rolling in his grave.

How ironic the guy whom preached peace forgiveness and compassion, taking care of the poor, shunning materialism etc is being run into the dirt by a group of people hell bent on destroying the world while they plunder all the gold and they are often the ones calling for the end of social programs intended to aid the poorest among us.

I love what George Carlin said about God.

In the Bullsh!t Department, a businessman can't hold a candle to a clergyman. 'Cause I gotta tell you the truth, folks. When it comes to bullsh!t, big-time, major league bullsh!t, you have to stand in awe of the all-time champion of false promises and exaggerated claims: religion. No contest. No contest. Religion. Religion easily has the greatest bullsh!t story ever told.
Think about it. Religion has actually convinced people that there's an invisible man -- living in the sky -- who watches everything you do, every minute of every day. And the invisible man has a special list of ten things he does not want you to do. And if you do any of these ten things, he has a special place, full of fire and smoke and burning and torture and anguish, where he will send you to live and suffer and burn and choke and scream and cry forever and ever 'til the end of time!
But He loves you.
He loves you, and He needs money! He always needs money! He's all-powerful, all-perfect, all-knowing, and all-wise, somehow just can't handle money! Religion takes in billions of dollars, they pay no taxes, and they always need a little more. Now, you talk about a good bullsh!t story. Holy Sh!t!
-George Carlin
Joined: 11/3/2005
Msg: 78 (view)
Tiger Woods
Posted: 12/18/2009 8:51:50 AM
Oh how our nation loves to build celebrities up put them on a pretty pedestal of golden perfection and then stone them to death wickedly.

I could care less whom famous people sleep with or how many times they cheat on their husbands and wives. I got my own life to live rather than stuff my head full of gossip and bullshit that effects me in absolutely no way at all.

Get real people you think you are holier than thou? You never had a family member whom cheated? You never cheated? WHO CARES! It is a part of everyday life as a mammal.

There is only a very small number of mammals that are actually monogamous and humans are NOT one of those creatures. Science has discovered through research that even animals that they long thought were monogamous with only one partner till death, often sneak off in the bushes and "cheat." The reason why this happens is very clear....

Ever hear the old saying dont put all your eggs into one basket? Genetics. higher chances of your offspring surviving if you have them with more than one female. If one family gets offed the other survives with your genes intact. It is the plain and simple dirty truth of living in a dangerous world

The only thing I see that Tiger did wrong was being dishonest with his ladies. If he would have just told it like it is he would not be having the problems he is having right now. It is not because he slept with other women that he is having issues it is the lies.

Men and women you are going to get caught eventually might as well just be honest from the git.
Joined: 11/3/2005
Msg: 5 (view)
CNN Drops to Last Place Among Cable News Networks
Posted: 12/14/2009 3:00:10 PM
I think people are making a bit much out of nothing. I think it is more likely that people that would be interested in cnn prefer to get their news online as opposed to the boob tube.

Where most of the right wing audience is get up there in age and still has a boob tube in their house.

I do not ever watch the television that shit is passe.

I prefer the internet and get most of my news from and other independent and public radio type sources.

The typical news shows are going the way of the dinosaur all together once the baby boomers kick off.

This country will change drastically also when that happens. Population will decrease HUGELY jobs will open up and the market will be turned on it's head.

I also predict that massive system changes will also occur and we will get rid of capitalism completely.

We will likely get rid of the monetary system all together. The signs are already showing on the net. Sharing, open source, non-profit shareware projects. This all just the start of a silent revolution...

The old get older and the young get stronger may take a week may take longer....

Joined: 11/3/2005
Msg: 7 (view)
Crusade for a Christian Military Are US Forces Trying to Convert Afghans to Christianity?
Posted: 12/14/2009 10:59:42 AM
I do not think they are going far enough... They need to make some arrests and hold people accountable that were breaking the orders. Some brig time might make others think twice about repeating the same mistake of disobeying an order of that magnitude.

It puts the entire military mission in a jeopardy.

If brig time is not enough to get the message out then start dishonorably discharging them after some brig time as well.
Joined: 11/3/2005
Msg: 124 (view)
Military burns unsolicited Bibles sent to Afghanistan
Posted: 12/14/2009 10:44:36 AM
Absolutely against the central command's general order.

Again, glad under this administration they are starting to taking this seriously. I do not agree with the war one bit but, I would hate to see our troops put into more danger by these xtian zealots. It taints the whole supposed mission and makes it look like the crusades all over again which, even the most nutty zealot should realize is bad for the over "mission" the military is supposed to be engaging in.

I believe the military should crack down more seriously than just burning the books. Some people need to made an example of me thinks. This is too critical and we have spent too much in lives and $ on this to let some crazy religious zealots to screw it all up. Again I am opposed to the war all together but, I would not want to see what will happen if these idiots continue their attempts to convert the population to their version of xtian religion.

It is beyond dangerous to the supposed mission the military has over there.
Joined: 11/3/2005
Msg: 118 (view)
Military burns unsolicited Bibles sent to Afghanistan
Posted: 12/12/2009 8:52:35 AM
I made a thread about this a LONG time ago. Not the burning but, the actual Christians with videos of them having meeting on how they can get around the rules when bush was president the military turned a blind eye to this crap.

You can see my thread here. Few wanted to touch it then I guess I should put that they should have burned the bibles to get people to look at it.
Joined: 11/3/2005
Msg: 469 (view)
President Obama Wins The Nobel Peace Prize!
Posted: 12/12/2009 8:28:35 AM
Have to say I am torn.

I disagree with him getting the award even though I understand why they gave it to him. I disagree because of his actions in Afghanistan. I know it was not his war originally and it may be tough to just up and leave. One way or another it is exactly what we will have to do.

You can lead a horse to water but short of stuffing it with salt you are not going to make that thing drink. Afghanistan is a poor country that has been bullied by everyone and their mother foreign and domestic. The people themselves are the ones whom need to rise up and make change. Change does not come from Washington but, from the people.

Now as far as making a big stink about Obama getting the award... I think Kissinger was a FAR more egregious one to receive the prize.

He was a man whom only has one other person in history whom was responsible for setting up the genocide of more Asian people and that would be pol pot. Kissinger was wrapped up in the Indochina wars and gave the go ahead and support for the genocide that went down in east Timor.

Kissinger in my view, is war criminal and NEVER should have EVER been given that award yet few ever said anything about that. It seems to me most here that are pissed about Obama getting the award would be pissed if Obama got anything right. They are pundits and partisans. People toting the party line. Equally the people beaming about it are also by and large the same.

The peace prize has been tainted a long time before Obama received it.

Further DMOTZ
Obama never once said he was about pulling out of Afghanistan he said he was pulling us out of Iraq. He said in his campaign quite clearly he would focus on Afghanistan and get out of the distraction in Iraq.

I disagree with escalating in Afghanistan but, Obama was quite clear and truthful in his campaign and is living up to it by the letter on this issue. He drew down involvement in the Iraq debacle and focused in Afghanistan.

While I absolutely disagree with escalation in Afghanistan.... Not just because I am opposed to war but, because I do not see how more war is going to solve a damn thing there ever.

The Russians tried what we are now trying and failed. They failed not because of the USA supporting the people whom now call themselves Al Qaeda(formerly Mujaheddin) but, because there is a HUGE cultural divide as far as systems of governance. Trying to nation build and make a western style democracy, in Afghanistan would be like trying to give a martian a liver transplant.

Chances are EXTREMELY high that once we leave it will go right back to the same ol same ol IF it even takes in the first place.. The Russians said the exact same thing except instead of western style democracy they were trying to bring about Soviet style communism. Both are flawed because they are both trying to force a change in governance on a people already hostile to invaders since their history has been nothing but, invader after invader.....

We should have never went there in the first place. I am not just talking about George bush the 2nd I am talking about Reagan. We should have NEVER supported the Mujaheddin whom later became Al Qaeda, the Russians were doomed to fail from the beginning. All of that was a waste of money on our part and was the precursor for us to get into this one.

It is all a monumental waste of money and lives for a people whom will not accept what we are selling them in the first place. If they wanted some other system of governance they would go about making one themselves and we should damn well get out of their way.

So in short, I think Obama deserves to be recognized for being the first time America didnt go to the same o same o in my life time but, to claim him a champion of peace? Nope.

"One cannot simultaneously prevent and prepare for war." Albert Einstein.
Joined: 11/3/2005
Msg: 74 (view)
Is It Time to Secede Yet?
Posted: 11/12/2009 1:31:31 PM

Somebody sounds scared.

Nope, I believe it is simply best to pick an arena for struggle, in a realm one has a chance to continue. I do not see a solution in violence that is beneficial to the people of this nation. I believe positive change comes not from violence but, people working together to make it so.

Joined: 11/3/2005
Msg: 51 (view)
Support broad in U.S. for public healthcare option
Posted: 11/12/2009 11:32:07 AM
A good question then is:

why is it that there are a huge numbers of people one can meet on the street or on the net whom support single payer but, it has never been put up for even a discussion on the floor of those whom are said to represent us?

I am callin Shenanigans!

Joined: 11/3/2005
Msg: 50 (view)
Support broad in U.S. for public healthcare option
Posted: 11/12/2009 11:23:02 AM

The Repubs. just sat on their fat asses collecting a pay check and doing nothing for all those years. (which by the way, if I ever do go into politics, is why I'm going Republican. Cause you fools will actually pay me to do nothing.)

I care not R or D, I do not support this bill at all.

I do not see things by party but by deed. This bill is a windfall to insurance companies and offers little to nothing to the people. That is my issue with it period.

I support universal coverage. Health care for all citizens of the USA.
Joined: 11/3/2005
Msg: 11 (view)
Six Veterans Died Every Day In 2008 Because They Were Uninsured
Posted: 11/12/2009 11:14:04 AM

The income requirements are met by most I would guess.

We can tell from the findings of this study that at least 2,266 last year did not, or for some other reason, were not covered.

I think every veteran should be covered for life soon as they get out. They should not even have to enroll for it. There is really no need for that. They already have every shred of information and identifying number or picture you can think of, just a simple computer program can auto enroll them. DONE! problem solved.
Joined: 11/3/2005
Msg: 10 (view)
Six Veterans Died Every Day In 2008 Because They Were Uninsured
Posted: 11/12/2009 10:49:12 AM
Sorry Dmotz I must respectfully prove you wrong here my friend.

From the VAs own information.

Eligibility Assessment Procedures

Public Law 99-272, The Veterans Health Care Amendment of 1986, and Public Law 101-508, The Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1990, established eligibility assessment procedures, based on income levels, for determining whether or not certain veterans who have no other special eligibility, are eligible for cost-fee medical care. These income levels will be adjusted on January 1 of each year by the percentage that VA pension benefits are increased.

Veterans who are not subject to the eligibility income assessment (Means Test) are as follows:

Service-connected (compensable) veterans

Former prisoners of war

Veterans awarded the Purple Heart

Veterans discharged for a disability incurred or aggravated in line of duty.

Veterans who were exposed to herbicides while serving in Vietnam, to ionizing radiation during atmospheric testing and in the occupation of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, or exposed to an environmental hazard while serving in the Gulf War and need treatment for a condition that might be related to such exposures.

Veterans receiving a VA pension.

Veterans of the Mexican border period or World War I.

Veterans eligible for Medicaid.

The eligibility income assessment, which follows, applies to all other veterans without special eligibility regardless of age:

Your hospital care, medical services and nursing home care (when provided) are cost-free if:

You are not subject to the eligibility income assessment (as listed above):

You are a nonservice-connected veteran or 0% non compensable service-connected veteran seeking care for a non service-connected disability and your combined household income is $22,887 or less and your income plus net worth is less than $50,000, if single with no dependents: or your combined household income is $27,468 or less and your income plus net worth is less than $50,000 if married, or single with one dependent (add $1,532) to the income level for each additional dependent).

Your hospital care, medical service and nursing home care (when provided) will require your agreement to pay VA a deductible (also referred to as co-payment) amount for that care equal to what you would have to pay under Medicare, as adjusted annually, if,

Your combined household income is $22,888 or above if single with no dependents or $27,469 or above if married or single with one dependent, plus $1,532 for each additional dependent.

If you are required to pay a deductible for your medical care, you will be charged a copayment, for which you will be personally responsible, as follows:

A co-payment equal to the Medicare deductible, currently $776 for the first 90 days of hospital care during any 365-day period. (In addition to this co-payment, you will be charged a fee of $10 per day for inpatient hospital care.)

For each additional 90 days of hospital care, you will pay half the Medicare deductible plus the additional charge of $10 per day.

For each 90 days of nursing home care, you will pay the full Medicare deductible. (In addition to this co-payment, you will be charged a fee of $5 per day for nursing home care.)

A co-payment of $50.80 will be charged for each outpatient visit.

NOTE: The income assessment level and co-payments rates are adjusted annually.

So as you see not ALL are eligible and or covered and some are pseudo-covered but forced to pay deductibles, and or co-pays. Others still are not covered at all.

So 2,266 at least we know for sure, were not eligible because they are no longer with us due to it. *Removes his hat in respect.*
Joined: 11/3/2005
Msg: 49 (view)
Support broad in U.S. for public healthcare option
Posted: 11/12/2009 10:19:41 AM
I do not support the health care bill that is in the house. It does not get rid of the problem. The insurance companies. It actually hands them billions more dollars and still lets people fall through the cracks.

I support universal coverage. Since it is not in the bill I do not support it.

In fact I think a place where many on the so called "left" and "right" do agree is that we do not like this bill. We might not like it for different reasons but, it is a point of agreement for many of us. Maybe we should learn to work together when we do agree.. Just food for thought.

I do not like this bill at all.

I believe we need to start from scratch and figure out how everyone in this nation will have the best health. It is the very foundation, to everything else a nation may wish to achieve. Without it we have no national security. How care we be secure as a people when some among us walk with untreated even potentially contagious illness, simply because they cannot afford the cost we as a society create, for them to be cared for.

This does not take some huge changes, it takes but, a change of our frame of mind.

What do we value more as a people?

For a very small group of people to get even more wealthy than they once were?
Public health

For me the answer is simple.
Joined: 11/3/2005
Msg: 55 (view)
Is it Time to Bring the Troops Home?
Posted: 11/12/2009 10:06:38 AM

How you claim that terror is not defeated by terror, which militray conflict/s are you aware of where this was the case?.

That is not Gandhi speaking either that is a non-profit corporation that studies these sorts of things.

If we go back and study how the vast majority of other terrorist groups were stopped most were brought to the negotiating table, or dealt with by police forces. Using war to stop terror has a VERY poor track record. War is terror. It causes innocent people to suffer whom might start thinking what those terrorists guys are saying makes sense. Thus more passionate recruits. Invading them merely sets up the climate for insurgency, and quagmire. That's great news for the war profiteers but, bad news for the rest of the world.
Joined: 11/3/2005
Msg: 47 (view)
Support broad in U.S. for public healthcare option
Posted: 11/12/2009 9:21:51 AM
I stand for universal health care. It is barbaric that we allow for a very few to profit off of the deaths and suffering of tens of thousands per year by not allowing them adequate health care while, they take money from healthy people to get rich.

Insurance companies, are a scam and a sick one that needs to be stopped.
Joined: 11/3/2005
Msg: 71 (view)
Is It Time to Secede Yet?
Posted: 11/12/2009 9:13:40 AM
pirateheaven said

I think you have it backwards. If CA seceded, we'd take over Mexico. You know those bitter Christian clingers with a Bible in one hand and a six shooter in the other, are fierce.

This is exactly what the people in Waco thought. You too might share a similar fate if you go forward with your six shooters and secede. Have you ever even been to Mexico and seen their army? They would run you guys over with their tanks laughing at you while they shoot you like a bunch of turkeys, they could beat your christian six shooting and still have time for a good mezcal afterward. This is not the days of the Alamo nor the civil war. Sorry to tell you that you were born a century or two too late to be a cowboy terrorist.

By all means though as comedic as this thread is. Dont believe me or take my advice/warning.... If you believe so firmly in this why tell anyone about it? Give it your best shot, I can bet you wont last a week, we'll miss your comedy for it is worth a chuckle or two, but I know the outcome of this as should you if you had any shred of sense in your head.

The military would laugh at your six shooters as they take them off your dead bodies which would likely have, tank tracks on your dumb faces.

I didnt think I would have to ever be telling this to an adult. An 8 year old perhaps but, an adult should have more sense than to want to play cowboys with the US and Mexican military. If you think the USA will allow mexico to be invaded by secessionist you are absolutely in for a rude awakening! They are not going to be playing when they shoot and I bet you all the tea in china that you wont get a chance to scream in argument, "I shot you first!" Leave the silly boyhood crap there or go get a paintball gun and play cowboy terrorist there. You might get some of that stupid out of your system and return to some sense of equilibrium. Then again maybe not.

*Face palms*
Joined: 11/3/2005
Msg: 8 (view)
Six Veterans Died Every Day In 2008 Because They Were Uninsured
Posted: 11/12/2009 8:52:01 AM
I could care less what a persons bias is. A peer reviewed study that finds more vets died from lack of insurance than from the war shows this country dont give a crap about it's vets unless it is time to send them off to war. When vets come back, they account for FAR too many of the people living on the streets! Suffering FAR too often from hunger! Add this to boot that they are dying from lack of health care do to the fact that the system is set up to let some of them fall through the cracks, and or they are finding it hard to make ends meet, it is sickening.

I lived on the streets for a number of years. I saw cops beat homeless vets simply because they decided to try to wash away their pain from war with too much drink and passed out in public. These are the same cops with the support the troops stickers on their cars. They support them by beating them when they come home broken from the shit these older guys were FORCED to be part of.

Dr. Woolander has her own National Health Program that she is pimping.

It is not HER health program at all she is asking for A NATIONAL HEALTH PROGRAM. She is a medical doctor in support of universal health care. HUGE difference than trying to say she is pimping a health care program, that would be the insurance companies that do that. They are the pimps and gangsters here.

She sounds to me like she wants everyone to have the opportunity to see a doctor when they are sick and in need. It is sad that we are the only developed country in the western world that even thinks about being barbaric enough to allow a very few people to get rich off of making others die and suffer without adequate health care, so they can take healthy peoples money.

It hits home even harder that last year 2,266 of those people that died last year so the insurance industry can get richer, were our veterans. Not only did they get the shaft when they got shipped off for wars, they get screwed when they get home.

God bless you guys and gals, some of us actually do love you. Some of us know if you really support the troops you do not send them to hell and back for no reason, like they are little toy soldiers. If you support the troops you make sure they are cared for when they get back. You make sure they are not sent off to pointless adventures of war profiteering.

Most people whom put the support the troops sticker on their car really are simply saying, support the pointless endless wars.

I could care less what made the lady Dr decide to do the study, the findings are clear, obvious and another glaring red mark against the insurance companies and this barbaric system of putting profits to a very small group of people above lives and the public health of our nation. It is disgusting we should be ashamed of how our nation is handling this issue.
Joined: 11/3/2005
Msg: 5 (view)
Six Veterans Died Every Day In 2008 Because They Were Uninsured
Posted: 11/11/2009 11:38:36 PM

What are you talking about? Veterans automatically qualify for free or low cost health benefits. All they have to do is enroll. Are you asking us to do their paperwork for them?

Think you may wish to look at this.

On Veterans Day, a new study estimates four times as many US Army veterans died last year because they lacked health insurance than the total number of US soldiers who were killed in Iraq and Afghanistan in the same period. A research team at Harvard Medical School says 2,266 veterans under the age of sixty-five died in 2008 because they were uninsured. We speak to the report’s co-author, Dr. Steffie Woolhandler, professor of medicine at Harvard University and co-founder of Physicians for a National Health Program.

That is the intro can watch or read the transcript.
Joined: 11/3/2005
Msg: 3 (view)
Why are the majority of Americans so apathetic in politics? We know you can talk the talk...?
Posted: 11/11/2009 10:23:31 AM

hey are tired of having to choose between socialism and socialism light. It's like a game of two card monte, whichever card you pick, you lose.

We need a choice between conservatives and originalists who support a constitutional republic, not bailout factory.

All of the bailouts we have ever had in this country were started and orchestrated by conservatives. From SNL scandal to the recent one we just witnessed.

No socialist worth their salt would ever wish to bail out a multinational corporation that takes advantage of it's workers. Socialists would turn the company over to the workers and do away with the status quo of the top raping the bottom.

I believe you might appreciate this article.

If your computer like it watch it as a video just press play there. The guy tells it like it is.
Joined: 11/3/2005
Msg: 54 (view)
Is it Time to Bring the Troops Home?
Posted: 11/11/2009 9:54:38 AM
Is it Time to Bring the Troops Home? AMEN! Long overdue, they should have never been sent in the first place. You do not beat terror with terror. War is terror..

We should have focused our resources on making sure that it would be much more difficult to attack us and make it as expensive as possible to attack us by staying here. Let them spend all their resources and time trying to figure out how to get at us. Instead we took to foolish road and made it as cheap as it gets to commit acts of terror on our citizens by sending them over there as troops. So now it is cheap to attack us, and easy to get more recruits because now the USA is acting just like they want. Every time a civilian gets caught in the crossfire more recruits for the terrorists.

Osama bin laden likely is no longer alive. He was said to be ill with terminal cancer before the war even started and was said, to be on dialysis for renal failure.

So think about it for a second barely alive all those years ago hiding in caves walking around on IVs and dialysis machine and cant be found for all these years. They probably recorded plenty of tapes or made people learn how to look like him and sound like him, to make new ones. Makes for the perfect bogey man that can never be found.

This is all a horse and pony show.
Joined: 11/3/2005
Msg: 2 (view)
Why are the majority of Americans so apathetic in politics? We know you can talk the talk...?
Posted: 11/11/2009 9:32:58 AM
I think many people have caught on to the game that we became the united states of corporations. They realize that their vote means little in the end. We are given a couple of choices which to many looks like Tweedledee and Tweedledumber. Then asked to get passionate about them enough to get home from a long day of work, some how in all of our precious free time we are to get educated on the issues and choose one of the idiots that believes at least somewhat like we do.

Me personally I vote and get involved to a certain extent but, I do understand why some others choose not to. Not a very hopeful course the USA decided to take.

It all went down hill when corporations no longer had to get charters renewed to continue to exist. They used to have to prove they served the public interest and greater good. Corporations were not viewed as people and used to thus be regulated to a degree by this process. Now they are considered to have the same rights as people and then get perks on top of that. So they are favored over actual people and corporations directly and indirectly cause most of the problems we face in the world today. Mostly because they are permitted to run wild with nothing to regulate them at all.

Apathy stems from a feeling that it does not matter what you think or do, they are going to do what they want anyways.

I agree it does not help the cause of the people to fall into it but, the feeling is there for legit reasons.

Our government works for the corporations and not the people. The question is how to change this fact without breaking into other issues that often arise every time this issue cycles back around.
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